Combatting track oxidation in humid atmospheres

[peteski]

Like DKS, I find claims of conductive lubricants greatly untrue. But we all do agree that coating bare metal with an oily substance will ******** oxidation.  As I mentioned, there are many such substances out there (likely including olive oil), so use whatever works for you.

I still suspect that oily rail-head will decrease the model locomotive's adhesion and reduce its pulling ability. But depending on the layout's design and train lengths, that might not matter. Then there is the matter of "crud" sticking to the wheel treads when they are running on a track coated with a oxidation barrier (oily substance). It is one of those subjects which has lots of pros and cons.

However, there are true conductive lubricants out there.

Like carbon-based https://www.nyelubricants.com/electrically-conductive
Or silver-based http://www.cool-amp.com/
There are others too.

[Chris333]

Somewhere I have a syringe of silver bearing grease that is... silver in color. Never tested it though.

I don't know if it is meant to conduct heat transfer or electricity.
https://www.mgchemicals.com/products/greases-and-lubricants/conductive-greases/silver-conductive-grease-8463

I used some in truck bearing cups, but never on track.

[narrowminded]

This old thread about track cleaning cars had some interesting comments, many similar to those here.  What I have found and reported there is that after cleaning and futzing for a long time I discovered that dust was my biggest culprit and it has been handled nicely with Dust Monkeys on all of my caboose axles.  Also, my average humidity in the summer is around 70%.  It gets worse at times. 

Here's the thread. 
https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=41162.60

[Steveruger45]

Like DKS, I find claims of conductive lubricants greatly untrue. But we all do agree that coating bare metal with an oily substance will ******** oxidation.  As I mentioned, there are many such substances out there (likely including olive oil), so use whatever works for you.

I still suspect that oily rail-head will decrease the model locomotive's adhesion and reduce its pulling ability. But depending on the layout's design and train lengths, that might not matter. Then there is the matter of "crud" sticking to the wheel treads when they are running on a track coated with a oxidation barrier (oily substance). It is one of those subjects which has lots of pros and cons.

However, there are true conductive lubricants out there.

Like carbon-based https://www.nyelubricants.com/electrically-conductive
Or silver-based http://www.cool-amp.com/
There are others too.

I’m just wondering that the claims by makers that these various products are “conductive” is being confused with  “non-insulating”,  perhaps.
Anyhow I am keeping an open mind and I will let everyone know towards the end of the year on how my NoOxId experiment works out.

[peteski]

I’m just wondering that the claims by makers that these various products are “conductive” is being confused with  “non-insulating”,  perhaps.
Anyhow I am keeping an open mind and I will let everyone know towards the end of the year on how my NoOxId experiment works out.

. . .  and next year repeat the test using let's say transmission fluid, then after that, a Wahl Clipper oil.  I still say that all of those oily substances will protect the surface of the metal from oxidation but might have undesired side effects.

Like narrowminded found, there are other similar threads on what to do to keep the track clean and the electrical pickup reliable. If you do a Google each you will find plenty of different methods, every one of them working well for someone.  This subject is like politics and religion - lots of heated opinions about it.

I'm not trying to be a wise guy, but I've hears some many "ideal track cleaning and preserving conductivity" stories that I'm jaded by now.  But if it works for you . . . 

[Point353]

Has anyone tried the graphite stick treatment?

[Steveruger45]

. . .  and next year repeat the test using let's say transmission fluid, then after that, a Wahl Clipper oil.  I still say that all of those oily substances will protect the surface of the metal from oxidation but might have undesired side effects.

Like narrowminded found, there are other similar threads on what to do to keep the track clean and the electrical pickup reliable. If you do a Google each you will find plenty of different methods, every one of them working well for someone.  This subject is like politics and religion - lots of heated opinions about it.

I'm not trying to be a wise guy, but I've hears some many "ideal track cleaning and preserving conductivity" stories that I'm jaded by now.  But if it works for you . . . 

 I know what you mean and in absolute agreement.
I am naturally sceptical until it is proved or experienced to work.
The heated issue of whether a lubricant is conductive or not to me now is in the past and dead.

But my attempts to solve or mitigate the problem of the title of this thread is still alive.
In short, In my mind at least, the jury is still out on the efficacy of NoOxId A special for the titled purpose but the results to date are looking positive and there might be someone out there interested to know what I find out and then draw their own conclusions or perhaps even try it for themselves. 

[Cajonpassfan]

A buddy of mine and I have tested at least a half-dozen of these so-called "conductive" products over the last few decades. None of them--zero, zip, nada--were the slightest bit conductive. They may ******** the formation of substances that inhibit conductivity, but they are not themselves inherently conductive. We therefore place any such claims in the category of snake oil.

Hmm, I wonder whether snake oil is conductive..
Otto K.

[peteski]

Hmm, I wonder whether snake oil is conductive..
Otto K.

No, but electric-eel oil is conductive. 

[Maletrain]

I wonder if there is a chemical treatment for "nickel-silver" (actually nickel and copper) that will "passivate" the surface, rather than just block air from the surface so that it does not oxidize.  There are various metal polishes that claim to passivate various metals (for instance, stainless steel), and I have often used a sodium bicarbonate solution to help keep cartridge brass from tarnishing.  These do seem to work to varying degrees, without making the metallic surfaces oily.

[peteski]

I wonder if there is a chemical treatment for "nickel-silver" (actually nickel and copper) that will "passivate" the surface, rather than just block air from the surface so that it does not oxidize.  There are various metal polishes that claim to passivate various metals (for instance, stainless steel), and I have often used a sodium bicarbonate solution to help keep cartridge brass from tarnishing.  These do seem to work to varying degrees, without making the metallic surfaces oily.

Well, if the passivated layer was conductive, then that would be a good solution, until the passivized layer was worn down by the wheels rolling over it, right?  The model RR folklore seems to indicate that the naturally occurring nickel-silver oxide is already electrically conductive (but we don't know how accurate that is and how conductive it is).

[Steveruger45]

No, but electric-eel oil is conductive. 

LOL 

[narrowminded]

The model RR folklore seems to indicate that the naturally occurring nickel-silver oxide is already electrically conductive (but we don't know how accurate that is and how conductive it is).

And my experience about black marks on a wiping rag remarked in this other post may be based in this.  The nickel silver rail was determined to be a marked improvement over the old plain brass rail decades ago so maybe there's some truth to it.  The only thing I know is that black (oxide?) appearing on my wiping rag doesn't seem to hurt on my layout.  I used to think it did/ must but my recent experience as outlined in the old thread that touches on this topic has caused me to question that.

Last night I added my overdue update to that old thread.  The link takes you to the end of that discussion and the update post I'm referring to is #87.   
https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=41162.75#lastPost 
 
I hope linking as I've done is not found objectionable.  It just saves gobs of retyping and is intended to add to the current discussion with some real experiences not to distract nor promote as a final solution to anything.   As we've all acknowledged, myself included, the many and varied conditions can have an effect on all of this.  There may be an answer that applies to all conditions but I can't claim that with any certainty nor have I found anything that can.  It may well be that there is more than one thing going on with one effort handling one thing and another handling another. 

[peteski]

And my experience about black marks on a wiping rag remarked in this other post may be based in this.  The nickel silver rail was determined to be a marked improvement over the old plain brass rail decades ago so maybe there's some truth to it.  The only thing I know is that black (oxide?) appearing on my wiping rag doesn't seem to hurt on my layout.  I used to think it did/ must but my recent experience as outlined in the old thread that touches on this topic has caused me to question that.

Last night I added my overdue update to that old thread.  https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=41162.0 
I hope linking as I've done is not found objectionable.  It just saves gobs of retyping and is intended to add to the current discussion with some real experiences not to distract nor promote as a final solution to anything.   As we've all acknowledged, myself included, the many and varied conditions can have an effect on all of this.  There may be an answer that applies to all conditions but I can't claim that with any certainty nor have I found anything that can.  It may well be that there is more than one thing going on with one effort handling one thing and another handling another.

Many metals, when turned into fine powder, lose their metallic color. For example when aluminum is sanded or polished the powder or residue is  not silver but dull dark gray.  Actually, when polishing (which is really an abrading action) even pristine and clean metal, the residue left on the polishing cloth is usually very dark.  This can be observed when polishing aluminum, brass, and other  metals. I believe that is why cleaning or polishing nickel-silver also results in a dark residue.  It is not an indication of dirt - that dark residue is just very small particles of clean metal.

Track cleaning and keeping its surface ready for conducting electricity is a never ending quest with many methods touted as the best.  There used to be a lengthy thread on the Atlas forum (no longer online) where there was a Russian modeler who had access to a mass spectrometer and he was going to do some research on various brands of track (as various manufacturers seem to use different nickel-silver alloys which have slightly different electrical properties and oxidation patterns).  There was also talk of analyzing the composition of the "crud" which accumulates on the wheel treads, but IIRC none of that really came to fruition.  The bottom line is that there are various methods of trying to keep the track clean and conducting electricity, and there doesn't seem to be a single ideal method which is embraced by all modelers.  Still, this is an interesting subject to follow.

[Maletrain]

I remember back in the '60s seeing an article, I think in Model Railroader, about plating the tops of brass rails with nickel. The idea was that it provided a much less corrosion-prone surface for electrical conduction, plus it looked "silver" like the use-polished prototype steel rail, while the dull brass undersides looked more like rusted rail (at least until they turned green).  Of course, when nickel-silver rail became routinely available, the idea of plating the tops of brass rail seems to have been forgotten.  But, the memory leaves me wondering what the effect of nickel content is on the corrosion characteristics of nickel-silver alloys.

And, if any a$$hat wants to do real research, plating the rails with something that is really non-corroding, like platinum, might provide a basis for discovering whether it is surface corrosion of deposits of other crud (e.g., from plastic wheels or airborne dust) that is the main culprit for loss of contact.