Another IM FT Question...

[strummer]

I just picked up another of these units. The previous one didn't run when I received it; now it runs as well as any loco I have.

This latest example runs, but very poorly. I've taken it all the way down, cleaned and lubed; (I even "Beardenised" it) but still, it's sluggish, makes a lot of noise, and even slows going into curves. (The trucks roll freely on their own, so I don't think it's them.)

 It does not have the same "spiked donuts" referred to in "Spookshow's" review; it has a 6-sided piece that fits into the flywheel. I've adjusted them on the worm shaft several times, trying to find the "sweet spot", but so far have been unable to get the thing dialed in.

I know these are capable of terrific performance: if anyone can suggest something I might be missing here, I'd appreciate it.

Thank you.

Mark in Oregon

[trainforfun]

When I Beardenized my locos I always put a little piece of Kleenex ( 1/8" ) in the bottom of the hexagonal hole of the flywheel .  It prevent the shaft from moving back and forth while there is still a bit of play for the shaft .

[peteski]

So it is both, performance and noise? 

Did you give it some running time to break it in?

If it slows down going into curves (while on the same curve the other example of that model doesn't) then I sold say there is something to do with the trucks.  Maybe the wheel gauge or maybe the worm gear (on top of the truck) is meshing too deeply with the worm?

I'm not sure how a DC loco can be sluggish.  Or do you mean it doesn't start smoothly at a very slow speed - it just lurches from being stopped to a not-so-slow slow-speed?

[thomasjmdavis]

Did you try the motor alone while you had it apart? And if so, did the motor respond well?

I am hardly an expert on IM drives, and all my IM units are at least 5 or 6 years old (or maybe more like 8 or 10), but all the IM Fs I have that I have taken apart have the drive train per spookshow.  Is it possible the one you have is a repair (ie- a used unit repaired by previous owner)?  If so, if the fit isn't close to perfect, you may be in the same fix you would be if the "donuts" were too tight or too loose.

You never know about these things.  I got a Kato cheap (cost of a used shell) from a fellow who said it "ran rough".  Put a meter on the wheels and indicated a short. So I took it apart. Wheels and trucks looked fine, gears were good, only problem was that one of those little metal inserts from an 1128 coupler had got itself "installed" into the motor and about 12" of armature wire was no longer attached to the armature.  Now I have a dummy, some spare parts, and I think I'll put the motor on a flatcar.

[strummer]

So it is both, performance and noise? 

Yes

Did you give it some running time to break it in?

Not really. I was afraid to, as I'm concerned there's a bunch of friction going on, and I (obviously) don't want to harm the motor.

If it slows down going into curves (while on the same curve the other example of that model doesn't) then I sold say there is something to do with the trucks.  Maybe the wheel gauge or maybe the worm gear (on top of the truck) is meshing too deeply with the worm?

Maybe.  I checked and adjusted the wheel gauge. How does one about checking something like the worm gear mesh?

I'm not sure how a DC loco can be sluggish.  Or do you mean it doesn't start smoothly at a very slow speed - it just lurches from being stopped to a not-so-slow slow-speed?

No, it starts slowly, but at a higher throttle setting than my other engines; it just seems like there's some kind of binding going on...

Mark in Oregon

[strummer]

Okay, I think I figured it out.

I looked again at the rear truck, and I saw that the wheel wiper was not contacting the pick-up strip properly. A closer inspection showed that the wheel wiper on one side was not seated correctly, so I dissembled it again and there seemed to be some kind of dried glue substance on the (2) vertical tabs that hold the wiper in place. This stuff was forcing the wiper to not seat properly, causing the wheels to bind a little. The fact that this was causing the wiper to hang up on the contact strip was probably why it would slow on curves(?).

Anyway, I scraped off that "glue" stuff, reassembled everything, and now it runs as well as my other IM FT.   

Sorry to have bothered everyone with this. I guess the lesson to be learned here is...well, I'm not sure. Check everything first before posting a question here?   

At least this was my first experience with "Beardenizing"... 

Mark in Oregon

[peteski]

Congratulations!  You will be a model loco mechanic in no time!  Careful examination of the model is an important part of troubleshooting.

Personally I'm not a fan of Beardenizing.  It might not have made as much difference in this case as you think. I'm not even sure if this loco's mechanism is a good candidate for this procedure.

[strummer]

Thanks, though it may take a while. 

Funny thing: I had noticed that "glue" stuff when I first had it apart yesterday, but didn't think anything of it at the time. Since this is only my second IM unit, perhaps I just figured they came that way. Apparently during initial re-assembly is when that wiper got hung up, and I only just now caught it.

As far as the "Beardenizing": I guess we may never know. It's running so well now, having removed those inboard bearing blocks, I'm reluctant to put them back in.

So there you go...

Mark in Oregon

[joelm]

Gents: I have a half dozen of these, some of which need maintenance.

Can someone remind me of what Beardenizing  consists of?  I've seen it mentioned a number of times on the forum, but have not been able to find a post which describes it. Thanks.

[reinhardtjh]

Here is one place to find it...

http://southernmodeler.info/Bearingblock.pdf

[joelm]

Thanks, John!

[peteski]

Gents: I have a half dozen of these, some of which need maintenance.

Can someone remind me of what Beardenizing  consists of?  I've seen it mentioned a number of times on the forum, but have not been able to find a post which describes it. Thanks.

Not all the locos are good candidates for blindly being Beardenized. It only "helps" with certain types of mechanisms.  Off the top of my head I don't know if this specific loco even needs that modification.  While I'm a huge fan of Ron's work and I think he is a very mechanically savvy modeler, and I understand what he is doing, personally, I'm not a fan of what he proposed in this modification.

[strummer]

Just to help this speculation along; when I get the chance, I will take mine apart again, re-install those bearing blocks, and see how it runs.

Will let you all know how it goes...

Mark in Oregon

[strummer]

UPDATE:

 I did what I said I would do; I took this unit down again to put those bearing blocks back in, but before I removed the hex nuts I scribed on the worm shafts exactly where said nuts needed to go when I put everything back together. I think the location of those nuts is critical. When I was first dealing with this engine, I noticed that one side had a little play in the worm shaft, the other side was tight. Giving that second side equal play was, I think as much as anything, in smoothing out the running qualities. I think Mr. Bearden mentions this in his treatment page(s).

So now, with everything back together as was originally designed, this unit runs smoothly and quietly as it did before.

Mark in Oregon

[peteski]

UPDATE:

 I did what I said I would do; I took this unit down again to put those bearing blocks back in, but before I removed the hex nuts I scribed on the worm shafts exactly where said nuts needed to go when I put everything back together. I think the location of those nuts is critical. When I was first dealing with this engine, I noticed that one side had a little play in the worm shaft, the other side was tight. Giving that second side equal play was, I think as much as anything, in smoothing out the running qualities. I think Mr. Bearden mentions this in his treatment page(s).

So now, with everything back together as was originally designed, this unit runs smoothly and quietly as it did before.

Mark in Oregon

If by nuts you mean the hex-shaped "universal" couplings which couple the worm shafts to the flywheels, then yes, their location will be critical.  While I don't have this loco at hand, my experience is that if those couplings are not installed far enough on the worm shaft, they will bottom out inside the flywheel, causing a bind in the mechanism.

Thanks for the followup.