Atlas 60' passenger cars shipping!

[thomasjmdavis]

Wheels appear to be a matter of luck.  My RPO had wheel problems, specifically that the middle axles of the 3 axle trucks were very tight- so the car does not roll well, and the wheels overall were not well made- so the car tends to wobble a bit.

However, I just received a baggage car on Monday (MBK got in a few more undecs and I managed to get one), and it rolls as well as a MT baggage. Wheels themselves have the same cheap plastic appearance, but the ones on the second car but all fit the trucks and roll true.

[Maletrain]

... Looking closely at the wheels, they are not smooth round wheels. they have small flakes, almost like a wheel that has hours and hours of crud build up on it, but this crud is molded into the wheel. So disappointing on a car set that I really didn't want to put any effort into.
What ended up being the best solution for wheels?

I don't know what is the best solution, but substituting Fox Valley metal wheels makes an obvious improvement.  And my particular Atlas wheels were not really terrible to begin with - certainly not as bad as the old Athearn wheels.

Looking at the Atlas wheel and axle point surfaces under a 10x loop, it is obvious that the surfaces are not smooth and shiny. I don't see "flakes" on the surface, but rather what look like scratches, as if the plastic parts were cast out-of-shape and roughly sanded.  In fact, there are small areas on the wheel surfaces that are indented and shiny, leading me to think that the parts were cast with smooth surfaces but then subjected to some sort of surface abrasion to make them more symmetrical, but were not then finished to a smooth surface.  I don't know if it is the rough finish on the treads or the axle points (or both) that significantly affects the rolling characteristics. 

The Atlas axles measured about 0.575" and did not seem tight in the truck frames.  The Fox Valley wheel sets I substituted measure about 0.572".  0.003" might make a difference in rolling resistance if the longer axles were slightly tight, but I don't think that is the issue in this case.

[nscalbitz]

Sounds like manifest moulding defects in a certain portion, which can be difficult to trace without direct access to moulds. If it's a 24 or 48 piece set up, may be only a couple of defectives are spoiling the pot.

Several of you guys with them should ship directly to PaulG as a customer experience exercise, not demanding or expecting anything but to provide the proof directly.

A note about what cars/ iteration they came from may help trace back an issue, perhaps. Feedback is the only way improvement can
happen.
FWIW dave

[Maletrain]

FWIW, I looked at some Atlas replacement wheels I have, and they look different from what came on the 60' passenger cars.  They have smooth treads, and the axle points look "frosted", like FUD (or whatever Shapeways just decided to call it, now).  Neither surface appears to be sanded in the circumferential direction like the wheels on the 60' passenger cars.

I also looked at some MTL replacement plastic wheels that I have, and those looked shiny on the wheel treads and axle points. 

The Fox Valley wheels that I used to replace the Atlas wheels are not as shiny on the treads or axle points as the MTL wheels - you can see the circumferential machining marks.  However, when considering rolling resistance, I am not sure whether a shiny but not precisely round wheel rolls better or worse than a precisely round wheel with circumferential machining marks.  They both seem to roll substantially better than the Atlas wheels that came on the 60' cars.  Someday, I will have time to finish a test rig to be able to objectively measure rolling resistance.  But, for now, I am happy with both the MTL and Fox Valley wheels.

[Peter Amling]

I'm toying with the idea of getting some of the CNW cars for a 50s era train on my layout. However I'm not sure what trains could be made with the cars available, or what a typical consist would look like. Which cars and how many? Seems like it might be possible to make an intercity train or a suburban if I just did coaches. Any help from fellow modelers?

[Mark5]

I'm toying with the idea of getting some of the CNW cars for a 50s era train on my layout. However I'm not sure what trains could be made with the cars available, or what a typical consist would look like. Which cars and how many? Seems like it might be possible to make an intercity train or a suburban if I just did coaches. Any help from fellow modelers?

I have a friend that has a pic of the coaches in commuter service - I'll ask him if I can share it.

[thomasjmdavis]

Peter,
Here is a suburban train from the CNW HS website.  Dated 1956.  Appears to be the short coaches (or something similar)
http://www.cnwhs.org/memberphotos/displayimage.php?album=7&pid=791#top_display_media

GP 7s were also used frequently on suburban trains of the time
http://www.cnwhs.org/memberphotos/displayimage.php?album=7&pid=2365#top_display_media

Both of those appear to be coach only.  But guessing some trains would carry a combine to provide for some express shipments.  CNW also had milk trains, and the combines or coaches would be logical as rider cars (although that is speculation on my part). 

The RPOs traveled a lot farther afield.  I doubt a 60' full RPO ended up on many (if any) suburban trains.  CNW had at least one that ran in pool with UP- and was painted in the UP Overland 2 tone gray scheme. Checking a copy of Railroad Post Office History, in the 1950s CNW had mail contracts for Chicago-Omaha, Chicago-St Paul and Chicago-Ishpeming, as well as some smaller routes.
http://www.cnwhs.org/memberphotos/displayimage.php?album=7&pid=2365#top_display_media

Of course, that assumes you are modeling CNW.  Many roads used short cars in their suburban service.  The baggage cars and RPOs can be used on virtually any train that would carry mail or express.  I am not aware of any long distance trains with "shortie" coaches in the 1950s, but the very fact that I just wrote that probably means that 4 or 5 examples of just that will follow soon to prove me wrong.

[Mark5]

Peter,
Here is a suburban train from the CNW HS website.  Dated 1956.  Appears to be the short coaches (or something similar)
http://www.cnwhs.org/memberphotos/displayimage.php?album=7&pid=791#top_display_media

Thats the pic! Thanks!

Mark

[Peter Amling]

Peter,
Here is a suburban train from the CNW HS website.  Dated 1956.  Appears to be the short coaches (or something similar)
http://www.cnwhs.org/memberphotos/displayimage.php?album=7&pid=791#top_display_media

GP 7s were also used frequently on suburban trains of the time
http://www.cnwhs.org/memberphotos/displayimage.php?album=7&pid=2365#top_display_media

Both of those appear to be coach only.  But guessing some trains would carry a combine to provide for some express shipments.  CNW also had milk trains, and the combines or coaches would be logical as rider cars (although that is speculation on my part). 

The RPOs traveled a lot farther afield.  I doubt a 60' full RPO ended up on many (if any) suburban trains.  CNW had at least one that ran in pool with UP- and was painted in the UP Overland 2 tone gray scheme. Checking a copy of Railroad Post Office History, in the 1950s CNW had mail contracts for Chicago-Omaha, Chicago-St Paul and Chicago-Ishpeming, as well as some smaller routes.
http://www.cnwhs.org/memberphotos/displayimage.php?album=7&pid=2365#top_display_media

Of course, that assumes you are modeling CNW.  Many roads used short cars in their suburban service.  The baggage cars and RPOs can be used on virtually any train that would carry mail or express.  I am not aware of any long distance trains with "shortie" coaches in the 1950s, but the very fact that I just wrote that probably means that 4 or 5 examples of just that will follow soon to prove me wrong.

Thanks so much! This is really helpful. I do model the CNW. I would assume the RPO and Baggage cars would be found on long distance trains, not suburban ones, but would such a train consist of those cars plus the coaches that Atlas has come out with? Just toying with the idea of finding a use for those cars, other than a suburban train (which I think I need at least one of).

[brokemoto]

I would assume the RPO and Baggage cars would be found on long distance trains, not suburban ones,

I do not know about the Can't and Never Will, but Sudden Specific had some SF Peninsula trains that carried mail and express into the early 1960s.  One such train was #110, which was the train that the students of Bellarmine and St. Francis rode if they had practice or some other activity that met before school started.  Most students of those two schools who rode the train to school rode the one that came after it, #112, which has been called the "Schoolbus on Rails" even before the founding of St. Francis and before Bellarmine moved to the campus that the College of the Pacific left when it moved to Stockton.  Before the move, the campus of Bellarmine was on Santa Clara University's campus, so the students just got off one stop sooner, at Santa Clara.

Before it purchased the RDC-2s designed with café space for the Daylight Speedliners, Baltimore and Ohio did have a pair of RDC-2s with real baggage compartments.  Those things did go to work in Baltimore and Washington commute service, thus, I would assume that there was some local mail and express traffic, at one point, at least. 

Further, I have seen photographs of the Penn Parkton Local with baggage cars and combines. Those photographs included either an RS-3 or RS-1 as power, so they would have had to have been taken after 1948, when Penn purchased some RS-1s, one of which it assigned to the Parkton Local (the RS-3s, of course, came later, usually to substitute for the RS-1).

Baggage and mail traffic on commuter lines is not unheard of.  I simply do not know if the Northwestern ever did it.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Further, I have seen photographs of the Penn Parkton Local with baggage cars and combines. Those photographs included either an RS-3 or RS-1 as power, so they would have had to have been taken after 1948, when Penn purchased some RS-1s, one of which it assigned to the Parkton Local (the RS-3s, of course, came later, usually to substitute for the RS-1).

Haha, was just in Parkton today... and I'll say this. The Parkton Local was not your "normal" commuter service. It was FAR from the high-density type operation you'd see around a larger metropolis (or even around Baltimore on the NEC or B&O). It was, essentially, a branchline passenger train that just happened to run through the suburbs. That's the reason you'd see mail and express on it: because the through trains over that line weren't stopping for the small (and I mean SMALL) communities it passed through beyond the city limits.

[brokemoto]

The Parkton Local was not your "normal" commuter service. It was FAR from the high-density type operation you'd see around a larger metropolis (or even around Baltimore on the NEC or B&O).

One thing that I did forget to mention about the Penn commuter trains between Washington and Baltimore were the electric MU cars, which were running into the 1970s.  I have seen service photographs of the baggage/passenger and baggage/mail MU cars taken between Baltimore and Washington over the years.  In addition, I did see a few of the baggage/passenger cars in actual service, although I suppose that the baggage compartment was mostly unused, except for perhaps newspapers,  at that point.  This suggests that the Penn also did some mail and express work on its commuter trains in the Washington/Baltimore area.

The C&NW did use the combines in regular commuter service, as I have seen service photographs of them behind both steam and diesel.  This suggests that there may have been some mail and express traffic on those routes.  By the time that the diesels came, the baggage compartment on the combine likely would have sufficed, but, a full baggage, on occasion, might not be far-fetched.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

One thing that I did forget to mention about the Penn commuter trains between Washington and Baltimore were the electric MU cars, which were running into the 1970s.  I have seen service photographs of the baggage/passenger and baggage/mail MU cars taken between Baltimore and Washington over the years.  In addition, I did see a few of the baggage/passenger cars in actual service, although I suppose that the baggage compartment was mostly unused, except for perhaps newspapers,  at that point.  This suggests that the Penn also did some mail and express work on its commuter trains in the Washington/Baltimore area.

Now THIS I can agree with! In fact, the last express run on the NEC was handled by Conrail. I think @jpec witnessed it.

[ljudice]

Now THIS I can agree with! In fact, the last express run on the NEC was handled by Conrail. I think @jpec witnessed it.

Don't forget, Amtrak ran a solid Boston-DC Express/mail train in the 1990's with AEM7's and MHC cars....

[garethashenden]

The C&NW did use the combines in regular commuter service, as I have seen service photographs of them behind both steam and diesel.  This suggests that there may have been some mail and express traffic on those routes.  By the time that the diesels came, the baggage compartment on the combine likely would have sufficed, but, a full baggage, on occasion, might not be far-fetched.

I know next to nothing about the C&NW, but here's another reason to have a combine in commuter service. The B&M used combines as smoker cars. They often put the baggage section between the rest of the train and the passenger section of the combine to mark the difference.