ESU Direct Installs

[peteski]

Have you ever argued countless times with a brick wall?  You'd have more luck...lord knows I've tried.

Creative workarounds my friend.  I find them. 

www.dufordmodelworks.com

@nightmare0331
Yes, creative workarounds are an option (which we all currently have to use), but it would be nice if an easier option was available, especially since it seems that Kato is finally warming up to the  ideal of being DCC friendly (or even to selling factory-installed DCC).  I just hope that it if this happens, it won't be Digitrax!    Having high quality plug-n-play decoders available for installation into Kato models would sure be a good selling point.

So, the mothership (Kato Japan) is  not interested in any sort official cooperation between Kato and ESU?

That brings up several more questions:

Was there any official cooperation between Digitrax and Kato when they developed their plug-n-play decoders for Kato models?

Are the Kato-branded decoders made by Digitrax (which would probably mean that there is some sort official partnership there)?

Was there any cooperation between Kato and TCS when they developed their version of the plug-n-play decoder for Kato models?

Yes, like John said, ESU could simply design and sell (without Kato's blessing) a decoder which will fit Kato models, but I think it would be better if there was some sort official cooperation between ESU and Kato.  Kato already has partnerships with European model companies (like Lemke and Noch) - why not another one with ESU?

If that is not to be, then maybe modelers themselves should lobby ESU to produce a plug-n-play decoders specifically designed for Kato (both the narrow and the wide versions)?  ESU already has the decoder with a component layout where all the components are on one side of the circuit board (the 73100 Direct Micro, a variation of the Intermountain SD40-2 decoder). It should be a breeze to re-spin the circuit to place it on a slightly redesigned PC board.

[woodone]

Mark, would jumper wires work for the motor contacts? Would be easy to place Kapton tape over the board wherenyoumwould like solder mask.
For the pesky cap sticking up-could you remove it and solder wires to it and move some place else?

[nightmare0331]

@nightmare0331
Yes, creative workarounds are an option (which we all currently have to use), but it would be nice if an easier option was available, especially since it seems that Kato is finally warming up to the  ideal of being DCC friendly (or even to selling factory-installed DCC).  I just hope that it if this happens, it won't be Digitrax!    Having high quality plug-n-play decoders available for installation into Kato models would sure be a good selling point.

So, the mothership (Kato Japan) is  not interested in any sort official cooperation between Kato and ESU?

That brings up several more questions:

Was there any official cooperation between Digitrax and Kato when they developed their plug-n-play decoders for Kato models?

Are the Kato-branded decoders made by Digitrax (which would probably mean that there is some sort official partnership there)?

Was there any cooperation between Kato and TCS when they developed their version of the plug-n-play decoder for Kato models?

Yes, like John said, ESU could simply design and sell (without Kato's blessing) a decoder which will fit Kato models, but I think it would be better if there was some sort official cooperation between ESU and Kato.  Kato already has partnerships with European model companies (like Lemke and Noch) - why not another one with ESU?

If that is not to be, then maybe modelers themselves should lobby ESU to produce a plug-n-play decoders specifically designed for Kato (both the narrow and the wide versions)?  ESU already has the decoder with a component layout where all the components are on one side of the circuit board (the 73100 Direct Micro, a variation of the Intermountain SD40-2 decoder). It should be a breeze to re-spin the circuit to place it on a slightly redesigned PC board.

I'm not touching some of these questions in a public forum.  Alot more politics then you'd think.

I will comment that pretty much every mainstream DCC manufacturer has samples of Kato products if they want to produce boards for them.

I do believe there is an untapped market for an ESU relatively drop in sound decoder, and Matt over there is warm to the idea, but has quite a few other projects on his plate.

Anywhoo...'Improvise, Adapt, Overcome' 

Enjoy!

Kelley.
www.dufordmodelworks.com

[Mark W]

Well we all know manufacturers wait to do things until after a modeler finally does it them self.  So I'll try to get the rest of my Kato fleet modified as soon as possible.  Surely then a Kato specific ESU board will suddenly become available.   

Mark, would jumper wires work for the motor contacts? Would be easy to place Kapton tape over the board wherenyoumwould like solder mask.
For the pesky cap sticking up-could you remove it and solder wires to it and move some place else?

Yes, jumpers would work for the motor tabs. 

You would need a needle point soldering iron to non-destructively remove that cap from the LokPilot.  I'm not sure anyone could successfully relocate that component, especially in a manor that is less hassle than just flipping the board and milling a notch in the frame. 

[woodone]

If the simple flip will cure the problem, I would say that would be the way to go.
I have removed smaller components than the cap shown, but that is another story.

[Jbub]

Thanks Mark for posting this. I wish I would have waited to see this before using the micro's on my 70ace's. I think I'll start using these decoders as it seems to help custom installs also.

[nightmare0331]

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Here's my take on the Kato SD70ACe with a select direct. 

I still need to tweak a couple of things with the speaker housing and take a hair more off of the frame, but I'll get it sorted out.

Enjoy!

Kelley.
www.dufordmodelworks.com

[woodone]

So which decoder did you use on each install ? I don't think that I saw an 73100 board.
I did do an Kato SD70ACe using a 73100 and had to do a bit of frame work to make fit.

[Mark W]

I used the 73100 on the first Kato ES44AC, which is the easiest one I've installed.  All the others I've done are 54650, which has the same board size as the 73199.

I expect the main thing you'd have to modify is to either widen the channel through the center posts, or remove them completely as Kelley did above. 
Then, I see the leading tabs on the rear of the 73100 board seems to sit a little further back than those on 73199 board, so to compensate you might have to lengthening the forward slots on the frame, to allow the whole decoder to slide further forward so that the rear tabs reach the rear frame tab slots.
Finally, everything else should just be component clearances. 

Got any pictures of how you did it?

[woodone]

Yes-drop down about 4 lines an see Penske thread about the 73199,73100 and the 74650’s
Last post there a photo

[peteski]

Yes-drop down about 4 lines an see Penske thread about the 73199,73100 and the 74650 54650’s
Last post there a photo

Penske?  That nickname I haven't seen before. 
It probably makes more sense to have each person's decoder installs posted in their own threads rather than in my  ". . . decoder" thread.

[woodone]

Sorry about that. You will have to give me an OLD SENIORS pass on that one. Seeing that I way closer to 80 that 75.
I directed him to that post because of the photo.
Will try not to infringe or hijack any of your posts in the future.

[peteski]

Sorry about that. You will have to give me an OLD SENIORS pass on that one. Seeing that I way closer to 80 that 75.
I directed him to that post because of the photo.
Will try not to infringe or hijack any of your posts in the future.

No problem - I've been called worse. 

I also don't mind people posting in the ". . . decoded" thread. Hey, TRW is famous for OT excursions (while your post is actually is on-topic).  I just thought that for ease of finding the info in the future it would make sense to have the installs documented in a separate thread. But wherever this info is posted it will be helpful to someone.

[lashedup]

Did sound installs in some of the locos I had added separate grabs and details to. This included a Kato SD70M.  Did the Select Direct Micro in the SD70M and SD70ACE but ended up doing the regular LokSound Select Micro in the GEVO as there just wasn't room above the frame and not much I could mill off. Plus it was a LOT easier install to use the regular LokSound Select Micro. I need to take photos of the SD70ACE and GEVO but have photos of the SD70M. Here is the final install (other than the rear LED wires that I secured before putting shell back on):



I milled a little bit off the front clip as some small board components wouldn't clear. I took a little more off than I planned but it's fine. Also milled the front nubs of the center posts and milled more clearance between the frame halves there as well. I used the included LED for the front headlamp (it should be flush with the front frame clip otherwise it will hit the light boards). There is room under the board at the rear for capacitors but so far I haven't found a need to use them with most of Kato's stuff. Speaker is a Soberton and I used a shapeways enclosure. Sealed it up with liquid electrical tape.

- jamie

[RBrodzinsky]

Here is an install thread for the 73100 into an Atlas GP38-2.   https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=44479.0

Not a lot of room in this small unit, but no issues, just a custom enclosure needed