Now This Is Weird - A Major MRR Supplier Dissin' Another on Their Website

[Doug G.]

Is this a spat between the two companies?



Doug

[learmoia]

If an MRC 1300 is so 'Tried and True'.. why develop TECH 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 & 7?...

~Ian

[Doug G.]

If a model T got people where they needed to go, why develop new cars?

Doug

[CBQ Fan]

Maybe they tried and failed but a joint announcement would have been the proper course to take and direct customers the right direction.   

[sirenwerks]

MRC doesn't deny what Rapido claims, only states Rapido didn't design the locos to work with its power packs. Considering no other manufacturer is mentioned by Rapido, I would presume the mentioned MRC packs are, um, out-of-date (aka, 25 YO) tech. Sorry MRC, but I think Rapido wins this match since it is staying more current in their designs. My question would be, are any other manufacturers' locos effected in the same way?

[learmoia]

If a model T got people where they needed to go, why develop new cars?

Doug

But would you expect the Model T engine to adequately power a Mustang?

~ian

[thomasjmdavis]

MRC doesn't deny what Rapido claims, only states Rapido didn't design the locos to work with its power packs. Considering no other manufacturer is mentioned by Rapido, I would presume the mentioned MRC packs are, um, out-of-date (aka, 25 YO) tech. Sorry MRC, but I think Rapido wins this match since it is staying more current in their designs. My question would be, are any other manufacturers' locos effected in the same way?

The problem, from my point of view, is that Rapido was not specific.  You can buy a "1300" today, which is substantially different from the one marketed 20-30 years ago. And how about all of the other MRC packs marketed over the decades with what one would assume is very similar technology. I have a tech 2 version 1400- should I expect that to work because it is not a "1300"?  Are the electronics inside so much different?

I have been advised by another modeler, a year or 2 ago, not to use a DCC loco in DC mode on my Tech 2 power pack. I've read elsewhere that we should never run DCC equipped locos on any pack with "pulse power." I only have a couple of Bachmann streetcars with DCC, and they seem to run fine on the Tech II, but maybe it is only a matter of time.

As to who is staying current with designs- MRC has designed a lot of new control units.  The other side of the issue is that there are obviously a lot of modelers who are "not current" on their control systems, but are spending $400 each for sound equipped DCC, and then running them on old, inexpensive power packs- I am assuming a case where they bought the loco to be compatible with a club DCC layout, but also run it once in a while on their old basement layout at home- or something like that. 

For me, it won't make much difference- I am planning to go to DCC soon anyway, and as a result of the cost of system and decoders, will not be buying any locos in the Rapido DCC/sound price range for quite a number of years.

[Point353]

It would be helpful if Rapido provided a list of which DC power packs they deem acceptable.
Which one(s) did they use for their own tests?

No doubt there is a vast installed base of MRC 1300 series units.
To make your new loco incompatible with those power packs seems ill advised.

[sirenwerks]

The likelihood is that this issue was discovered via consumer feedback, the issue repeating over numerous consumers/locos. You can't expect Rapido to test a loco design using every power pack ever made, or even those that exist on the market today, to confirm compatibility. That's what industry standards are for, for designers in both camps to know and adhere to the baselines.


That being said, it would behoove both parties to figure out what is going wrong and develop a mutuall-beneficial outcome. If Rapido can tweak their product to resolve the issue, it should on new releases, so consumers with the suspect power packs can dodge the disappointment. And if MRC is trying to hide design or quality issues, that ain't cool.


Jason is, simultaneously, outspoken and pretty easy going. If he reached out to MRC and got ham-fisted doing so, I could see him losing his composure and going defensive to protect the integrity of his product.

[Point353]

The likelihood is that this issue was discovered via consumer feedback, the issue repeating over numerous consumers/locos. You can't expect Rapido to test a loco design using every power pack ever made, or even those that exist on the market today, to confirm compatibility. That's what industry standards are for, for designers in both camps to know and adhere to the baselines.

To what "industry standard" do you refer?

Is there an NMRA standard that addresses the presence of "spikes" on the output voltage of a DC power pack, which is what seems to have Rapido's knickers in a knot?

[ljudice]

Weren't some MRC packs deliberately designed for "pulse power" ?

I was always warned to stay away from them.

Seriously, who has an oscilloscope to check this out???

[sirenwerks]

To what "industry standard" do you refer?

Is there an NMRA standard that addresses the presence of "spikes" on the output voltage of a DC power pack, which is what seems to have Rapido's knickers in a knot?

MRC mentions UL Certification, I would presume, given the delicacy of some of these electronics, there would be standards in place. But I don't even know what a UL cert is, honestly.

[delamaize]

Very poor on Rapido's part.

How? Because they warn people that MRC's old technology will damage their locomotives? that seems like the right thing to do to me.

[peteski]

MRC mentions UL Certification, I would presume, given the delicacy of some of these electronics, there would be standards in place. But I don't even know what a UL cert is, honestly.

I mentioned in my earlier post - it is a safety certification  (as to begin safe for the user). It means that if you use the product as intended you will not be shocked or killed.  As long as there is no current leakage from the 120V to the low voltage side and the exposed output voltage terminals will not shock you, it can be UL certified.

http://blog.all-spec.com/what-is-ul-certification/

[u18b]

Almost all my locos are DCC now. 

And I've noticed a change over the years.

When "dual mode" decoders came out, almost all of them ran fine on a variety of power packs.

But I've notice more recently that some of my decoders don't like and/or won't run well in analog.

This led me to ditch analog pulse power totally. I invested in a power pack that has a switch to turn pulse off.  I also opened it up (sorry UL safety folks) and added and extra capacitor to make sure any spikes could be removed as possible.

Now my decoder locos are running better on analog. 

Long way of saying..... I think Rapido has a point.

Btw- my favorite DCC system is the mrc prodigy.
Can't wait to add the wifi module one day to run trains with my old retired smart phones.