Proper Caboose for Erie PA-1 and/ or FA-1?

[Everon Railways]

Ah, I remember his post last year now.

I won't step on his toes then

@Everon Railways hows the Dunmore project coming?  Asking for a friend....  LOL.

I should have had several completed by now. However, its been snag after snag lately. The photo etchings are done. Thanks to Chris for pointing me to PPD for professional results. The MicroMark home etching kit was a disaster. Next, were the painting issues. I thought painting would be easy, nope! I bought Tru-Color paint as they have the right colors but ran into major adhesion problems. Could not get that paint to stay on the models. Some paints won't grab resin, which is expected. This stuff wouldn't even grab onto a primer. Masking the paint was impossible, it would flake off, even after a gloss coat. I also noticed a major color shift when applied to a white primer. The first shells were stripped like 5-6 times. I abandoned Tru-Color. I have new paint on hand I will be testing.

The next problem was the end windows. The plan was to insert individually 3d printed window frames. The frames are not fitting properly. I went this route of separate frames as the protective window guard bars are .03 mm thick, which would probably pose a problem casting. The solution is to photo etch the window openings and glue them over the void. The artwork is complete, I just need to submit it.

Don't worry about stepping on toes. It wasn't my intent to make the caboose for a kit, and selling is an afterthought. I'm no kit manufacturer   I did learn a lot from this project. Had I realized that a caboose has so many damn details, I would have started with the Stillwell project. I should have some completed models in a couple weeks.
[img]http://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?media/etching.131828/full&d=1519871561/img]
[img]http://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?media/tru-color.131827/full&d=1519871561/img]
Tru-Color, which has since been stripped.

[Everon Railways]

[Point353]

Next, were the painting issues. I thought painting would be easy, nope! I bought Tru-Color paint as they have the right colors but ran into major adhesion problems. Could not get that paint to stay on the models. Some paints won't grab resin, which is expected. This stuff wouldn't even grab onto a primer. Masking the paint was impossible, it would flake off, even after a gloss coat. I also noticed a major color shift when applied to a white primer. The first shells were stripped like 5-6 times. I abandoned Tru-Color. I have new paint on hand I will be testing.

Have you tried first applying a coat of plastic adhesion promoter, such as that from SEM and typically sold in auto parts stores?
https://www.semproducts.com/product/plastic-adhesion-promoter/39863

What masking tape were you using?
Have you tried the masking tape from Tamiya?
https://www.tamiyausa.com/articles/masking-tape-222

[Everon Railways]

Have you tried first applying a coat of plastic adhesion promoter, such as that from SEM and typically sold in auto parts stores?
https://www.semproducts.com/product/plastic-adhesion-promoter/39863

What masking tape were you using?
Have you tried the masking tape from Tamiya?
https://www.tamiyausa.com/articles/masking-tape-222

I haven't used a plastic adhesion promoter. My concern is lack of control spraying from a spray can rather than an airbrush. I am using Tamiya tape. Speaking of Tamiya, their paint coats and grabs the resin beautifully. I have a few jars of different Tamiya red colors on hand and will see about formulating a recipe for the right color. I really enjoy using that paint. I also have some other brands that just arrived, and should be able to get the results I want.

[Lemosteam]

I should have had several completed by now. However, its been snag after snag lately. The photo etchings are done. Thanks to Chris for pointing me to PPD for professional results. The MicroMark home etching kit was a disaster. Next, were the painting issues. I thought painting would be easy, nope! I bought Tru-Color paint as they have the right colors but ran into major adhesion problems. Could not get that paint to stay on the models. Some paints won't grab resin, which is expected. This stuff wouldn't even grab onto a primer. Masking the paint was impossible, it would flake off, even after a gloss coat. I also noticed a major color shift when applied to a white primer. The first shells were stripped like 5-6 times. I abandoned Tru-Color. I have new paint on hand I will be testing.

The next problem was the end windows. The plan was to insert individually 3d printed window frames. The frames are not fitting properly. I went this route of separate frames as the protective window guard bars are .03 mm thick, which would probably pose a problem casting. The solution is to photo etch the window openings and glue them over the void. The artwork is complete, I just need to submit it.

Don't worry about stepping on toes. It wasn't my intent to make the caboose for a kit, and selling is an afterthought. I'm no kit manufacturer   I did learn a lot from this project. Had I realized that a caboose has so many damn details, I would have started with the Stillwell project. I should have some completed models in a couple weeks.

LOL.


[img]http://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?media/etching.131828/full&d=1519871561/img]
[img]http://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?media/tru-color.131827/full&d=1519871561/img]
Tru-Color, which has since been stripped.

I have hit a few snags myself on the Stillwell.   

I do have some design experience with FUD/FXD trucks, which I think would be the best solution for this. If you want some help there, PM me.

[coosvalley]

I haven't used a plastic adhesion promoter. My concern is lack of control spraying from a spray can rather than an airbrush.

I use this stuff all the time, and even coming from a spray can, it goes on very thin. I usually give a model 2 coats, and even then you cannot tell I did anything. I don't know how I ever got along without the stuff..

My oldest model I've used this on still has 100% of the paint on the handrails, so it absolutely works..

[Everon Railways]

I use this stuff all the time, and even coming from a spray can, it goes on very thin. I usually give a model 2 coats, and even then you cannot tell I did anything. I don't know how I ever got along without the stuff..

My oldest model I've used this on still has 100% of the paint on the handrails, so it absolutely works..

I'll check it out, thank you. I have my doubts that it will solve the Tru-Color adhesion problem. I've applied Tru-Color to other paints and primer that hold well to the resin, and still had adhesion problems with Tru-Color.

[wazzou]

I can vouch for the adhesion promoter.  Just spray a nice even wet coat much as you would if spraying Dullcote.

[peteski]

I'll check it out, thank you. I have my doubts that it will solve the Tru-Color adhesion problem. I've applied Tru-Color to other paints and primer that hold well to the resin, and still had adhesion problems with Tru-Color.

I never had any problems you seeing with Tru-Color and with the old Accu+Paint (pretty much the same type of paint). But if you like the organic-solvent-based paints, I recommend Scalecoat II.  I use all of these with good results.

[narrowminded]

@peteski  Do you recommend any particular adhesion promoter on resin or plastic, maybe Delrin specifically?  I have used just primer on the little bit of plastic I've done but have never painted resin.  I expect I will be soon, though. 

[peteski]

@peteski  Do you recommend any particular adhesion promoter on resin or plastic, maybe Delrin specifically?  I have used just primer on the little bit of plastic I've done but have never painted resin.  I expect I will be soon, though.

Resin is just another type pf plastic (polystyrene and ABS are also resins - just another kind of plastic). 

Resin in general has coating of mold release still on the surface, which prevents paint from adhering to the resin. That is usually removed by strong degreasing agent (like Purple Power).  Westley's Bleche White was also good for this task, but its formula was changed few years ago and I read in online forums that it is no loner useful.  I still have the old stuff.  But don't leave the resin in those solutions for prolonged period of time.  I suspect that lacquer thinner or just acetone would also remove the mold release from resin.  Once the surface is prepped, spray it with primer. Any primer you usually use should work, then paint the color coats.

As for painting slippery-plastic handrails, I never tried adhesion promoter. I have a Badger mini sandblasting gun with aluminum oxide blasting media. I sandblast the plastic so it has a rough texture, then I spray on a coat of Pactra paints for polycarbonate RC model car bodies (supposedly it is a flexible paint). Since those aren't RR colors, I choose a color that is either neutral, or close to the final color. Then I spray the final color using Accu-paints (Tru-color paints). The paint buildup is minimal.  Those Pactra paints are discontinued, but I still have a stash.  I think that Tamiya now sells a line of paints or the polycarbonate RC car bodies.

[wazzou]

@Everon Railways - This is what I use but I'm sure there are many similar brands.

[coosvalley]

More about adhesion promoter can also be learned here:

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=25931.msg260446#msg260446

[nscalbitz]

They came riveted first and then welded. I'd like rivets more than welds (damn tripple etching again)

Erie, EL, and Conrail used them. They later had grills over the windows. I'm sure you could sell a bunch.

And small enough not to warp or shrink 

Surely if it's important, use what you want.
As for prototype practice, then which takes priority?
"Proper" would be what was historically in use for the period your focus desires.

I've been going back through a lot of historical threads around the place. Found one recently where someone had created  a layout with a specific road, branch and care for presentation and operators presence. He then asked what prototype trains he could run. Sadly he was told that daily trains didn't exist, little to none passenger service etc. The branch existed for 20 years and had two weekly freight extras.

That is a lack of significant research, way back when just a gleam in the eye. I'm not saying you can know everything up front, but certainly having an outline will help.
Regds dave