Another kato sd45 loksound install

[Steveruger45]

Sounds great! I couldn't really make out the whine with the sound decoder running. I can't recall if this was mentioned before but, with the sound file you have, F4 will activate "low idle" when the loco is at a standstill. I have the same file in an SP SD45T-2.

On the whine issue, I've occasionally had to incrementally add lube (again, tiny droplets on the end of a wire) to either the motor bearings and/or the worm bearings when the whine/squeal was being stubborn....being cautious of the risks of applying too much at the motor bearings. I also typically use LaBelle Lite oil for bearings.

Thanks Russ,
I was wondering how to turn off fast idle.  You saved me a lot of studying the dreaded manual.
Thanks also for the tip on the whine, I will try that.
Steve

[tehachapifan]

Thanks Russ,
I was wondering how to turn off fast idle.  You saved me a lot of studying the dreaded manual.
Thanks also for the tip on the whine, I will try that.
Steve

Glad to help! I should mention that my SD45T-2 install was done using the new 73100 board. I'm not positive if the F4 input will work for activating low idle with the board you used.

[RBrodzinsky]

Glad to help! I should mention that my SD45T-2 install was done using the new 73100 board. I'm not positive if the F4 input will work for activating low idle with the board you used.

The boards will work the same with the same project file loaded.

[tehachapifan]

I figured that was the case but wasn't positive. On that F4 command for low idle, F4 is (as I'm sure you probably already know) also the dynamic brake command when the loco is moving. I accidentally left a loco consist in low idle with F4 activated (you can make it a consist function too) and then began to throttle them up. They accelerated rather strangely and then I realized they were going straight into dynamic braking. Something to keep in mind.

[AKNscale]

Sounds good. And I agree that it sounds like the motor. But, personally I would remove the shell and then run it. That should make it much easier to diagnose the noise(this is the main way I find problems with my locos).

[peteski]

Sounds good. And I agree that it sounds like the motor. But, personally I would remove the shell and then run it. That should make it much easier to diagnose the noise(this is the main way I find problems with my locos).

If there is a spare motor (or another loco which doesn't have the problem, and which uses the same motor) then just swap the motor and see if the noise persists or goes away.

[Steveruger45]

If there is a spare motor (or another loco which doesn't have the problem, and which uses the same motor) then just swap the motor and see if the noise persists or goes away.

Sounds good. And I agree that it sounds like the motor. But, personally I would remove the shell and then run it. That should make it much easier to diagnose the noise(this is the main way I find problems with my locos).

Thanks guys.  Yes I did run it many times with shell off and off track on alligator clips.  I just can’t isolate the issue.
But I do have another loco and I was also thinking I would swap motors over and see if the issue also swaps over.
I was wondering if it is the motor bearings then if I should give the motor a good wash in electro clean, thoroughly dry it and re-lube the bearings?

[peteski]

Thanks guys.  Yes I did run it many times with shell off and off track on alligator clips.  I just can’t isolate the issue.
But I do have another loco and I was also thinking I would swap motors over and see if the issue also swaps over.
I was wondering if it is the motor bearings then if I should give the motor a good wash in electro clean, thoroughly dry it and re-lube the bearings?

If you isolate the problem to the motor then yes, you could give it a good cleaning. But I also wonder if that will really fix the problem.
Also, is the noise present (and sounds the same under either condition) while the loco is running light vs. under heavy load, or even slipping?

[Steveruger45]

If you isolate the problem to the motor then yes, you could give it a good cleaning. But I also wonder if that will really fix the problem.
Also, is the noise present (and sounds the same under either condition) while the loco is running light vs. under heavy load, or even slipping?

Hi Pete
Whine noise is the same in either direction when running on its own.  I haven’t run it with any load yet since the loksound install. I will give that a go this weekend.

[Steveruger45]

Well, I have spent the entire day in the garage trying to fix this whine.
The whine is the same whether on light or heavy load/slipping.
I tried Swapping bits and pieces with the good loco in a systematic way.
It’s not the trucks.
I renewed the worms and bearing blocks for some spares I had.
I did not swap the motor as I did not want to risk making a good loco bad.
It has to be the motor and or the u joints. That’s all that’s left.
When I tested the motor on dc out of the loco it did seem to have a significant vibration to it.
I washed it out with electro clean, dried it and re-lubed the bearings and no change.
I took the MT coupler springs out from the end of the u joints and put in similar from a rapido coupler which are a little longer and stronger after I took the u joints apart to inspect, couldn’t see anything wrong with them.
The springs Put outward pressure on the worms towards the end bearing blocks but still allows them to move toward the motor.  This did make a slight difference. New motor and joints ordered.

[peteski]

Hmm, by replacing all the other parts besides the motor you seem to have isolated the problem.  I wonder if the motor's armature is out of balance. Or maybe the flywheels.

[Steveruger45]

That’s exactly what I am thinking.  I pulled the motor and put it on dc all on its lonesome in the motor cradle and at about 1/4 throttle all was fine. Increasing the throttle gave a steadily increasing vibration.  I washed out the motor thinking possibly armature out of balance and wishfully hoping that this would maybe help.  It didn’t. The comm appears clean too, as best as I could see anyway, no missing or loose segments and no excessive carbon between the segments.  Brushes sparked a little at full throttle but not excessively so.
Motor armature does have some lateral movement but normal I think.  Bearings were in place too.
Flywheels look good, no dings or such and look to run true at all speeds, no discernible wobble at all.
In short, I can’t detect a reason for the motor vibration, but stand it on the work bench And the vibration makes a hell of a din.
In comparison My other loco motor has some vibration but no where near as bad.

[Steveruger45]

Sounds great! I couldn't really make out the whine with the sound decoder running. I can't recall if this was mentioned before but, with the sound file you have, F4 will activate "low idle" when the loco is at a standstill. I have the same file in an SP SD45T-2.

On the whine issue, I've occasionally had to incrementally add lube (again, tiny droplets on the end of a wire) to either the motor bearings and/or the worm bearings when the whine/squeal was being stubborn....being cautious of the risks of applying too much at the motor bearings. I also typically use LaBelle Lite oil for bearings.

I played with this loco again today, taking your advice on sequential lube of motor and worm bearings.  It seems to be working.  The whine is noticeably diminished although still there.  What I did was apply a drop of labelle 108 to each Worm bearing and motor bearing. While applying to the motor bearings I moved the armature axially back and forth ( it doesn’t move much but I figured let’s get this tiny drop of oil all the way in there) and then run the loco a while roundy-roundly. After about 15 minutes running I would let it rest a few hours and then repeat, being sure not to over lube.  I will now let it sit, in air conditioned storage, next to all my other locos till next week and repeat again.  I will take any improvement I can get.  At least now it can do a scale 70mph before the whine is noticeable.

[tehachapifan]

Glad to hear it's improving!

[Steveruger45]

Well, as I just could not cure the whine I replaced the motor assembly complete for a new kato one.
Now it runs beautifully quiet.