Athearn Challenger, Good Grief!

[atsf3751]

My point was that Athearn shouldn't be gun-shy considering producing the next run. There should be options available.  All the models designed and assembled in China have some design and production quality issues. But it seems that some are really bad. Remember the BLI sound decoder which kept blowing up?  BLI issued a recall. Even Scale Trains' Big Blow is not totally problem free. But none of  these problems are so bad that there would be no solution.

I am just concerned that Athearn getting a lot of returns may make them reconsider doing any more. There is an out of pocket expense for them on every return and that can eventually make the cost more than the profit. And that could affect future models. They will do what they can to satisfy existing sales. N scale steam is always more difficult than diesels, articulateds especially so.

[rgengineoiler]

Thanks for the support.  I'm going to wait until June 8th and then get into it with them.  Enough is enough by then at six months.  Back to the Acreage.  Doug

[learmoia]

I am just concerned that Athearn getting a lot of returns may make them reconsider doing any more. There is an out of pocket expense for them on every return and that can eventually make the cost more than the profit. And that could affect future models. They will do what they can to satisfy existing sales. N scale steam is always more difficult than diesels, articulateds especially so.

Such is life with finely detailed products that they produce..

I'm sure they have the same issues in HO as in N..  Part of the reason they cost $4-500 each.. but 6 months is excessive on repair time..   

Thanks for the support.  I'm going to wait until June 8th and then get into it with them.  Enough is enough by then at six months.  Back to the Acreage.  Doug

Try to be civil about it... ~Ian

[kverdon]

The only thing civil that Athearn deserves at this point is a class action lawsuit. This is a disgrace.

[peteski]

The only thing civil that Athearn deserves at this point is a class action lawsuit. This is a disgrace.

Really?  Aren't we a little quick to sue? Doesn't a class action suit need a  large number of plaintiffs? Do we know how many purchasers of this model had a problem with it?

This is the problem with this country - everybody wants to sue at a drop of a hat.  You rally think that a class action lawsuit (if it is even a an option) will solve anything?

[MK]

But Peteski, do you have $500 of your own money tied up in a product that you can't use and currently somewhere else, for months, with no resolution in sight?  To a lot of people, $500 is a lot of money.

Sometimes you have to put yourself in the other guy's shoes.

[peteski]

But Peteski, do you have $500 of your own money tied up in a product that you can't use and currently somewhere else, for months, with no resolution in sight?  To a lot of people, $500 is a lot of money.

Sometimes you have to put yourself in the other guy's shoes.

I understand, but have they exhausted all the possible steps to get their money refunded (assuming that his is their goal)? I think a lawsuit should be the absolute last ditch effort.

[kverdon]

I said it is what they deserve, though I doubt it will come to that. They have shafted a large number of people with the latest runs and the people who purchased the defective units certainly deserve something for what we have been through. They have had my engine, and my money for 7 months with no foreseeable resolution and I have a second engine with the issue Nick outlined. It is a completely and totally unacceptable. They have done this with no acknowledgement or communication of the problem or possible resolution. You can compare this with Lionel who has also screwed the pooch recently with some of their recent releases. They at least have acknowledged their issues and been forthcoming about how they are going to take care of their customers

The issues with the last run of BigBoys should have been an indication of systemic problems but they ignored them.  I really don't care if Athearn ever produces another NScale Locomotive again. I surely will not trust them again.  If they exit the business, and a market exists for the products they have produced, someone else will take it on and perhaps do a better job of it. In that way we all benefit. We should not be so desperate for a particular product that we will accept any crap offered. It hurts not only the modellers but the retailers who have to handle the increasing number of returns and refunds they have to handle. For smaller shops this can be a major burden.

A bit bitter, perhaps, but I have about 800 reasons to be so.

[Mark W]

...everybody wants to sue at a drop of a hat.  You really think that a class action lawsuit (if it is even a an option) will solve anything?

And no one thinks of the side effects of such a lawsuit.   

But Peteski, do you have $500 of your own money tied up in a product that you can't use and currently somewhere else, for months, with no resolution in sight?  To a lot of people, $500 is a lot of money.

Side effect number 2, we all get a nice 30% tagged onto MSRP on all new products, from all manufacturers.   A form of insurance against a now precedent class-action suit.  $500 is a lot, $650 is a lot more.
Side effect number 1 of course is the manufacturer just calling it quits.

Sometimes you have to put yourself in the other guy's shoes.

I've wore those shoes with my first run Challenger.  I know how bad it sucks.  But think how bad it sucks for Athearn.  I guarantee they hate being in this situation almost as much as you do.  (Let's be fair, they are still profiting).  But from everything we can gather, they're stuck between a rock and a hard place with the factories in China.  The longer they hold on to warranty service products, the less margin they see in profits, so it really is in their best interest to finish service as fast as possible.  Sadly that's hard to do when they apparently don't have necessary stock of parts.

*That being said, perhaps if they brought their distribution model into the new millennium and quit snubbing some of the better online retailers, they could increase their production numbers and margins enough to fully resource their warranty program without these huge delays.*
 

They have had my engine, and my money for 7 months with no foreseeable resolution and I have a second engine with the issue Nick outlined. It is a completely and totally unacceptable.

I really don't care if Athearn ever produces another NScale Locomotive again.

Again, I get the frustration.  I would have driven to their doorstep to demand answers after 6 months. But I just can't see any benefit from pushing any manufacturer toward the exit.  You might say Athearn deserves it.  But they're not the only ones watching. 

[MK]

Fool me once, fool me twice....

Consumers are not there to keep the company in business, the company is there to keep itself in business by making products that consumers will continue to buy.  There are many events and signs that will eventually cause a law suit to be filed against a company and unfortunately many companies either don't notice them or chose to ignore them thinking they are too big to fall (as one example).  By the time a law suit is filed, one doesn't really care about the company's long term existance or its side effects.  It has gone beyond the peaceful resolution point.

And if a manufacturer decides to quit because no one is buying their products, how can that be blamed on the consumers?  They didn't have products that the consumer wants for one or a multitude of reasons.  Take a look at Sears, Toys R Us, etc.

[peteski]

And if a manufacturer decides to quit because no one is buying their products, how can that be blamed on the consumers?  They didn't have products that the consumer wants for one or a multitude of reasons.  Take a look at Sears, Toys R Us, etc.

Demise of the above companies had nothing to do with faulty or poor-quality products, or even lawsuits.  We are mixing apples and kumquats here.

[learmoia]

Sears and Toys R Us is simply the death of the LHS on a global scale.

~Ian

[peteski]

Sears and Toys R Us is simply the death of the LHS on a global scale.

~Ian

Yes, goodbye Sears, Woolworth, K-Mart, and many others, and hello Amazon, eBay, Wayfair, and many other giant online retailers.   The paradigm has shifted. People (especially those pesky Millennials) love to stay home, order online and have their items delivered to them (by drones eventually).  I sure hope that retail stores (especially grocery stores/supermarkets) remain here for the remainder of my life - I  actually enjoy food shopping and squeezing my fruit, and maybe even discovering some new product or two while walking the isles.  Online shopping is dull and boring, but (at least for now) the prices are good. 

[MK]

Demise of the above companies had nothing to do with faulty or poor-quality products, or even lawsuits.  We are mixing apples and kumquats here.

I disagree.  Companies survive because customers keep coming back to purchase things.  Basically they have what you want/need and they sell it at a better price or better quality than the other guy.  Whether a)they don't have what you need or b)they sell crap (and who needs crap?), the outcome will be the same.  Customers will no longer come back and this can cause a vicous spiral leading to the demise of companies if they don't change their ways.

Customers not coming back is the bottom line regardless of cause, of which lack of qaulity is one of them (amongst many).

[atsf3751]

Sears failed because it never really got a handle on successful online marketing, not because of any faulty product, Craftsman tools and Kenmore appliances being two examples of quality products. If you had a Craftsman tool and it failed, Sears would replace it for free no matter how old it was.

There are still some open Sears stores, but the one closest to me is closed along with (I think) all the K-Mart stores they bought. Management was old school and never really understood the Amazon style of selling. Shopping malls are not as busy as they once were because shopping online from your computer is easier. Major companies are closing their doors not because they have inferior products but because people shop from home now.