Back to DC

[Dave V]

There's a parallel between DC/DCC and track choices.  Everyone has to find the thing that works for them.  The elitism that accompanies some of these discussions is a real turn-off.

I think of @trainbuff1 Todd Treaster's amazing NYS&A.  I love visiting and I love operating it.  It's DC with code 80.  It also works flawlessly.

For those that can handlay code 40 and run full DCC and never have an issue, that's awesome.  But that just isn't how it works for everyone.

I've become a sound hound so I'm going to be using DCC for my RGS.  I'm also using code 70, though...even though code 40 is more correct for the RGS even in HOn3.  My railroad, my choice, and what works for me.

The more we can agree that different solutions work for different modelers the more we can enjoy one another's work without feeling compelled to browbeat each other into seeing things our way.

[peteski]

The latest fad of making trains controllable though smartphones is a real turn-off to me. Just consider how often smartphones are upgraded or rendered obsolete over the years and what that might do to one's established operating protocols.

It is not *THAT* bad when it comes to using phones as WiFi throttles.
I have a flip-phone used only for emergencies. I do not own an active smart phone.   But few years ago I picked up a disposable (pay as you go) smart phone for around $20 with the goal of using it as a dedicated WiFi throttle.  The phone functionality is inactive, but it works fine as a WiFi device. I downloaded the Engine Driver app to  it and that is what I use it for exclusively.

The phone is not getting any software/firmware updates and I have not updated the Engine Driver App since I installed it.  It should work just fine for as long as WiFi works and as long as TCP/IP protocol works (which should be for the foreseeable future).

I don't actually like running the smart phone throttle very much, but it really comes in handy in a pinch when I run trains on our NTRAK layout during shows, or on friend's layout when we don't have enough throttles.  It is also a great ice-breaker when we approach kids at the train shows offering them a chance to run trains on our NTRAK layout. Kits are perfectly at home with smart phones and jump at the chance to run a little train using a smart phone app.

[SandyEggoJake]

I'm with @peteski (though still astounded a guy w/o a smart phone is happy using a flipper for WIFI control). 

Truly is "something new".... if looking for the feel of DCC but running a Z gauge DC layout, you might look into Bluerail.  Might as well try it, as unlike Loren who believes this is a "fad", I believe such is the future train control singularity that both DCC and DC will collapse into in about 5 to 10 years. 

Current chipset are too large for Z or even N to run in true bluetooth/ wifi to train mode - especially as "deadrail" using battery ... but with N & Z, you can "run the layout" as in DC, yet get a sexy DCC like GUI throttle...and sound. 

One a big benefit: if you have a smart phone or tablet, you already own the cab controller.  (You didn't want to take phone calls while running your trains anyway.)

http://bluerailtrains.com/

Small gauge example... http://bluerailtrains.com/2016/07/11/user-showcase-kevin-stevens/

[Greg Elmassian]

Hmmm.... in larger scales where batteries on board are reasonable, I get it. In N, and especially Z, forget batteries. So if you are picking up your power from the track already, why would you go wireless decoders that will ALWAYS be larger than wired ones? If I have any extra space in Z, in goes a speaker and sound decoder.

If you power the track with DC, you still have reversing loop problems, which are even more difficult to solve.

Hmmmm....

[peteski]

I'm with @peteski (though still astounded a guy w/o a smart phone is happy using a flipper for WIFI control). 

Um no, the flip-phone is my "active" cell phone (which I keep turned off and only use it for making urgent calls).  The WiFi throttle is on a $20 smart phone (Kyocera Event) which was never activated, but which happily connects to any WiFi Internet.

[mmagliaro]

I'm afraid I fall into this group as well. I just don't feel the need to "start over", so to speak; plus, I have a wonderful Heathkit RP 1065, which runs my stuff beautifully (right, Max? )

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Mark in Oregon

Ha!  You're welcome!   And that's not the only old-school transistor throttle I still have, but all the others are home-made.  I still have a "Full Feature Throttle" from Peter Thorne's "Practical Electronic Projects for Model Railroaders".  It was the fanciest circuit in the book...I thought I was really cool as a teenager to be building that thing.   

[nkalanaga]

I'm also sticking with DC.  If it was good enough for the Milwaukee, it's good enough for me!

[Sokramiketes]

This is exactly how the staging yard on Rick Spano's S&U functions. I built it for him decades ago, and it still works today, even accommodating his switch from DC to DCC. If you're seriously thinking of taking this route, I'm happy to offer up some ideas.

Yes, pondering it a couple more nights, I think the staged parade of trains route is where I want to go.  So any ideas on automating the end loops would be appreciated, especially if they help to cascade the trains out of parallel staging tracks.

[DKS]

Yes, pondering it a couple more nights, I think the staged parade of trains route is where I want to go.  So any ideas on automating the end loops would be appreciated, especially if they help to cascade the trains out of parallel staging tracks.

First question is, would you want the trains to always emerge from the yard(s) in the same sequence, i.e. the order they were stored, or under user-control, or both?

[Erik W]

There's a parallel between DC/DCC and track choices.  Everyone has to find the thing that works for them.  The elitism that accompanies some of these discussions is a real turn-off.

I think of @trainbuff1 Todd Treaster's amazing NYS&A.  I love visiting and I love operating it.  It's DC with code 80.  It also works flawlessly.

Dave,

Your comments resonate with me.  I've operated on Mike Danneman's Moffat Road many times, and have helped him during numerous open houses.  His expansive layout is built with Peco code 80 track and DC.  The question of DCC always comes up at the open houses.  He just has no interest in it, and no reason for it.  The dispatching job is actually a lot of fun, making sure all the trains running are lined up into the correct blocks. 

Also . . . I'm psyched to see your interest in Rio Grande Southern HOn3.  I've dabbled in HOn3 myself, easy to do living in Colorado and having both the Cumbres and Toltec, and the Durango and Silverton an easy drive away.   

Erik

[mmagliaro]

Dave,

Your comments resonate with me.  I've operated on Mike Danneman's Moffat Road many times, and have helped him during numerous open houses.  His expansive layout is built with Peco code 80 track and DC.  The question of DCC always comes up at the open houses.  He just has no interest in it, and no reason for it.  The dispatching job is actually a lot of fun, making sure all the trains running are lined up into the correct blocks. 
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Erik

Excellent point.  I am not really an operations guy.  But back in the 90s, I regularly participated in a weekly group that ran operations with card orders, wireless headsets, and like you, we used a dispatcher who was responsible for flipping the block switches.  As long as you obeyed the dispatcher's orders, you never had to worry about block controls.

It was the most trouble-free thing ever.  The operators didn't have to worry about *anything* but running their train and switching their cars, and the hand throttles only had power and reverse.  What could be simpler?  We had 8 operators.  It was a pretty big layout.   You often could not see many of the other operators by line of sight.  The wireless headsets also added a lot to the overall feeling of being separated by geography.  And it didn't hurt that our dispatcher was usually a Conrail fellow who really knew what he was doing because he did it in real life.

[w neal]

Mike,

I encourage you to "retro" back into DC. I did so several years ago with a small layout and found it absolutely refreshing! Your current project looks ideal for this. Besides, you can likely go DCC with it later if you find you really miss it.

[coosvalley]

I have avoided DCC mostly because tiny electronics is NOT my hobby, nor is it something I consider fun.This thread has some great information from Max, but to me, it might as well have been written in German, as I understood almost none of it. I get frustrated enough trying to keep n scale engines running good, I can't imagine adding DCC to the mix would make that better!

That's not to say I'm not jealous of some of the things DCC offers, such as selectable lights, and possibly even sound. But those things are not enough to make me "take the plunge" and give up on good ol' reliable DC.

[Chris333]

I just can't imagine adding a $35 decoder to a locomotive I paid $19 for. 

[DKS]

I just can't imagine adding a $35 decoder to a locomotive I paid $19 for. 

That and losing so much valuable weight.