The CWR (Continuous Welded Rail) Train Thread

[craigolio1]

I wonder if warming along its length with a hair drier while it's strung like that would assist it in remembering to be straight?

Craig

[fcnrwy23]

I wonder if warming along its length with a hair drier while it's strung like that would assist it in remembering to be straight?

Craig

Hmmmm   

Jerry g.

[prbharris]

...The accompanying paperwork, suggests to straighten it by using "Warm water" and some "physically manipulating" of the material.  I have tried that, but that has been proving to be difficult and incomplete process. I decided to go, to a more "straight-forward" measure..I will check-in on it, tonight and again tomorrow morning..Jerry G.

I am sorry to see that it so long to get to you but I do hope that this measure works. Other customers have found that the rails do need some 'encouragement' to get straight, after a constricted journey via USPS. It would be really helpful to know what was tried and how it successful. The warm water method has been employed elsewhere, so it is interesting to hear of a better way.

Peter

Peter Harris
N Scale Kits
www.nscalekits.com

[fcnrwy23]

I am sorry to see that it so long to get to you but I do hope that this measure works. Other customers have found that the rails do need some 'encouragement' to get straight, after a constricted journey via USPS. It would be really helpful to know what was tried and how it successful. The warm water method has been employed elsewhere, so it is interesting to hear of a better way.

Peter

Peter Harris
N Scale Kits
www.nscalekits.com

Let me stress!!   In no way shape or form is this negative.
There was no realist way to ship this product.

I just need it to be as straight as it can be, since I will be pushing it limits... 

I am duty-bound to report back!   

Jerry G.

[fcnrwy23]

The CWR thread..

March 10, 2018


A Rail (stretching) Update....

Well 36+ hours have passed since I strung up the rail.   For the most part, it has responded pretty well, the ends did start to re-curl after I released them.  But, its a great improvement from where we started. 



The tensile strength of this material is pretty darn good.  I accidently walked into it this morning and a second later was expecting it to snap, in two.    NOPE!
   I did think long and hard about the suggestion, of straightening the rail by "Heating".  But, having worked with styrene, I did not want to deform and structurally weaken its composition.  I think the presently used method, will do the job.  I will let it "Rest" for the rest of the weekend and then see where we are at.

The RAUN Car...

The RAil UNloading Car is the last car, the rail traverses through before it "Hits the Road" (Bed)  .
   My version of the car's layout, (Operator's Cab, Winches, Diesel fuel tank, Genset, Ladders and Railings) are of a CSXT prototype.  I have seen other variations (by railroad) on youtube, but the placement of the Rail Guides are pretty much the same on all of them.  Getting the loose rail, to the ground as safely as possible..



The starting point of the car is an Atlas 50 foot flatcar body.  I installed the Atlas car weight, but replaced the deck with .040 thick, .040 spaced "V-Groove" styrene.  The various components(Cab, Winches, Genset, etc...) are styrene shapes, tubes, ladder and railing stock..
The doors on the car are .010 sheet stock with cut sections of .020 rod stock for the "Door Knobs".  I plan on simulating the "windows" with Black decals, as I have done pretty well on my other MOW units.
I do NOT plan on "painting" the CWR in GGX's orange colors.  The train will be owned by a private contactor, So, another color scheme will be in the works...

Next Up...

Rail Update


Jerry G.

[fcnrwy23]

The CWR Thread

March 18, 2018

Progress has resumed on the CWR train, with some good news and some well not so good news.

Good News! 
I had been trying to find an answer to my Rail "Grid" problem.  I knew that if I wanted the train to negotiate the required radius that I had set.  (9 3/4")
That the Rails would have to have a lot of "Freedom" of movement.  Gluing the rails down, would not work.
 Well, a little over a week ago, I got a tip on a 3D-printed item, that might fit the bill..  I got a copy (files) of the items.  And set it off to that "3D-printing" site.  (I'm not specify mentioning them here, I don't know if I am allowed to?).     Anyway, the samples came back last Friday...

A Set of (10) of the Rail Guide panels on one sheet.


I did some adjusting and testing and with some styrene support, I got a workable product..

Rail Guide assembly parts and a completed Guide assembly.


The styrene support, came in the form of some .125" (1/8") styrene "C" channel. The channel came out to be just the right thickness, for the interior width dimensions of the Roundhouse Gondolas that I will be using.  The resulting setup, allowed me to make complete assemblies of the Guides, that I would simply glue into place.
The one pictured is for the "Intermediate" Guides.  I also, acquired a second file which was for the "End" Guides, which had fewer opening, but was "Beefed-Up" in the center cross members.

This photo shows the setup of the Rail Guides in one of the two, Head End cars.  Consisting of both a End and Intermediate Rail Guide.


The train, (following prototypical practice, on CSX anyway) has a Head-End car on each end.  This car has a steel bulkhead with operating doors for preventing any loose rail from causing damage..    It contains one of each, of the Rail Guides.  One, beefed-up End assembly and an Intermediate one.  The rest of the cars are each equipped with two (2) of the Intermediate Guides.

I have "Test Run" the train, with only three (3) sections of rail, but the stiffness of the rail is an issue.   I plan on adding some additional weight to the "Bottom" of the gondolas.  And hope this will help.

I changed the number of cars from ten (10) to only eight (8 ).  First, because of the rail and second because, I think I will have to leave this train as a "Whole" unit.  The Rail was cut at 32 inches.  That puts the train's length, (just the Rail Handling Cars) at 35 inches.  It took me about 25 minutes to "feed" just the three sections.   I can "enlarge" the openings of the Guides by running a rail through them.  Once, I have run a rail, the opening is good., BUT the rail has to be perfectly aligned for it to make it through.
  I also, had some issues with the "car slack action".  If the rail "binds" the cars uncouple.   I found that if I pull all of this slack out, the run is good until the next curve.  Then, the rail binding, etc...   One working theory, is to install "drawbars" and replace the MT couplers...

Not so good news...
The rail still has a mind of its' own.  After, 'stringing" it for five days, it still want to curl.  I had the most trouble with the last car as I was threading the rails through.  It seem all that pent up force, the rail just wouldn't straighten out.   I made of quick video of the trains' run through the test area, I will post a link as soon as I send it to YouTube...

 
Jerry G.

[peteski]

You mean Shapeways?  There are numerous threads about Shapeways items. Members freely announce their new Shapeways items. This is the Railwire - we are free to post pretty much anything here (except for politics and religion).

[prbharris]

The CWR Thread
 I got a tip on a 3D-printed item, that might fit the bill..  ... and set it off to that "3D-printing" site.  A Set of (10) of the Rail Guide panels on one sheet. Jerry G.

Jerry

I hope that this idea works - it would be very helpful to have feedback. I had not thought of using printed bunks as an idea, as although a number of folks have amended the bunks to have the rail run through it, I would have thought that the friction of the rail running through bunks rather than laying on the top of the bunks as I usually see [and are shown in the vidoe [I know that it is too low quality - there is a higher res one in production] would be too great.

Thank you for the information - and if it works we could provide sets of 3D prints. Please keep us informed.

Great work so far.

Peter

Peter Harris
N Scale Kits
www.nscalekits.com

[fcnrwy23]

The CWR Train Thread

March 24, 2018

I wanted to have the video of the actual train, up and running before I posted.  Which, I just got done a few minutes ago. (8:35 am CST).

peteski - I just remember sometime back, about some things not to be posted on the forum.. OK It's Shapeways! 

prbharris - In my comments, the intent was not to go "bashing" the product.   You have offered a product that is accurate, in shape, size and detail and is right now, as "flexible" as is practically possible.   The only drawback (in my application of it) is the by-product ("curling"; No not the Olympic sport - ) of the "shipping" process.  My requirement is for it to perform as "prototypically" as possible..  In the suggestions of "heating up" the rail, I am concerned about changing the plastics' structure, which in the process would make it more rigid.  I would like the rail to be "more flexible" than less...


In Practice...
    I am approaching this project, the same way I would as if it was one of the job projects at my place of work.  I get the "Job Folder", which contains the product's: destination, weight (sometimes  ) and any special requirements.  And than it is left up to me, to figure out how to preserve, cushion and package the product.   I am not allowed to change or modify the product.  What I am getting at is, I not going to change/modify the rail.   It is, was it is.  So, the solution is for ME to figure out, what is needed to be done to "package" this product...

Observations...
  The idea of the allowing the Rail to move freely, was pretty much set from the start.  If you look at the second photo, of this thread's very first post.  I suggest the use of a "Grid" sort of guide, to hold the rails in place.  This would allow the rail to behave just as the prototype does. 
   The assembly of the Guide Assemblies for the Handling Cars, was pretty easy and straight forward.  I did have to filed down the "width" dimensions of the 3D parts to make slide into the styrene "C" channel for near perfect fits.  I attached, two (2) Intermediate Guides per car.
The "threading" of the rail through the guide openings was pretty much like one "lacing up" their shoes.  The more the rail was aligned, "square" to the guide surface the easier the installation.  The curling became more apparent though, as I got to the last cars.  I lucked out, when I installed the first rail.  As the bend, was angled toward the centerline of the car.  Before the second install, I made sure that the rail would "bow" the opposite direction, Thus canceling out the torque of the other.  The third rail, was a 50/50 shot as to which side it would go to.





I run the train from Ford City to Wild Rose, without any problems.  But, the last car derailed as it crossed the "Road Crossing" to the cranberry bog, which was just before the "test curve".  I noticed at this time, that a few of the cars had "uncoupled".  I reattached the cars and than "close lined" the group to take all of the "coupler slack" out.  That operation, resulted in two (2) of the Micro train pins pulling out.  (Try reinstalling bolster pins on a train that is 36 inches long.. ).  I ended up, flopping the whole thing on its' top, to get the pins back in. 

The video below is of the 2nd run...

In retrospect:
   I DO plan-on:
        * "Draw-barring" the cars together in the final configuration, to cancel-out the coupler issue.
        *  Address the "friction" issue by "opening up" each of the guide opening.
        *  Adding more "weight material" on the car floors.  With the height of the first row of openings, there is ample room to add another sheet of the Atlas car weights. (the cars right-now are pretty, "weeble-like", they "right themselves" pretty easily...

   Possible TODO plans:
        *  Attach the trucks, in a more "permanent" fashion, if they continue to detach themselves.
        *  And have the guides be printed-out, of a more, finer (smooth) material.  Thus, reducing the possibly of friction.  But, that would be a last resort...


Right now, I am decaling the Schnabel Car, as I am typing-out this post.  And I would like to finish the car, this weekend.
So, the CWR will have to wait for any work until next week....

Jerry G.

[prbharris]

        * "Draw-barring" the cars together in the final configuration, to cancel-out the coupler issue.
         *  Adding more "weight material" on the car floors.  With the height of the first row of openings, there is ample room to add another sheet of the Atlas car weights. (the cars right-now are pretty, "weeble-like", they "right themselves" pretty easily..

Jerry

This is looking good. Thanks for the briefing - and great looking cars

The cars that I use for a demo are drawbarred - this makes the coupler issue easier - and when tipping over, they all go smoothly!

and the cars are our own 68' flat cars with the bunks added - so they are fairly heavy. I move them around for display purposes so keep them as one consist inside a 2m cardboard tube, with caps on the end. I did think of adding rail inside the tube, but it is not necessary - and makes loading much easier too.

Peter

Peter Harris
N Scale Kits
www.nscalekits.com

[fcnrwy23]

I move them around for display purposes so keep them as one consist inside a 2m cardboard tube, with caps on the end. I did think of adding rail inside the tube, but it is not necessary - and makes loading much easier too.

Peter

It is becoming very apparent that keeping it a "Complete" train, is the only option for transport.   I will see about that "Shipping Tube"

Jerry G.

[prbharris]

I will see about that "Shipping Tube" Jerry G.

I made up a long tube with three shipping tubes of two differing diameters that telescope together. However - do not forget, as I did,  about the cap at the ends - whoops. It was just as well they are drawbarred, as the first three cars dangled out of the tube - they slide very quickly out of the tube [as they are on wheels!] when not completely horizontal. 

Peter

Peter Harris
N Scale Kits
www.nscalekits.com

[ryan_wilkerson]

Anyone consider a gun carrying case? I was walking through the sporting goods store and so a long (5ft +?) case with foam inside. Not sure what the max length they sell but I'll be searching.

[central.vermont]

Jerry,
Been following this build and have a couple of thoughts.
First is actually aimed at Peter. What if you were to get your Rail order already cut to length, in your case you only needed them to be 32 inches long. Would that have been able to be shipped in a tube?

Second you are thinking of having your bunks printed again. What if you were to have them done in metal? I know if would cost more but it would add weight.
Keep up the good work Jerry!!

Jon

[prbharris]

What if you were to get your Rail order already cut to length, in your case you only needed them to be 32 inches long. Would that have been able to be shipped in a tube?

The welded rail is manufatured in 50' lengths - which is about the minimum length that the cutter can provide, such is the speed coming out of the extruder! We did, initially, get a number of tubes for mailing - and still have them. So, we could do shorter lengths if folk wanted them and then ship in a tube. That may keep it straighter.

Peter

Peter Harris
N Scale Kits
www.nscalekits.com