Rivarossi Heavyweights

[dougnelson]

In an email this morning from Con-Cor it was mentioned that the Rivarossi N scale heavyweight tooling has been lost and these will never be produced again.  In the days before the Micro-Trains heavyweight passenger cars, the RR cars were valuable for kitbashing and upgrading.  It was the only Pullman sleeper available.  RIP RR heavyweights.  On the other hand, fear not, they will be available for reasonable prices at train shows and the secondary market for the next 1,000 years. 

[Carolina Northern]

Doug,

They look really nice. Whose steps are you using?

[mplsjct]

Ironic they were called Heavyweights, the Rivarossi cars were very light weight, and had minimal weights inside them.

[sd45elect2000]

Lost? Did they take the tooling out drinking and leave it sitting on the bar ? I understand maybe breaking the tooling for one car but to lose the whole line ? I'm confused...

Randy

[Missaberoad]

Lost? Did they take the tooling out drinking and leave it sitting on the bar ? I understand maybe breaking the tooling for one car but to lose the whole line ? I'm confused...

Randy

It's possible that it was sent to a subcontractor and never returned... Or whomever controls the rights to it doesn't want it used for whatever reason... More often then you think perfectly serviceability tooling is kept in limbo like this... It's also possible that it was misplaced in storage or lost in shipping...

Or Con-cor is simply being hyperbolic...

[dougnelson]

I quote from the Con-Cor email:

"As you know Rivarossi went out of business in 2003 and some of the tooling was sold off to other European manufacturers, but the tooling for most of their N items including the Heavyweight pass cars disappeared. So there will be no more of these cars ever available."

They look really nice. Whose steps are you using?

Those are Gold Medal Models etched brass steps.

[daniel_leavitt2000]

They could have been abandoned by Rivarossi after purchase from Hornby. That would be my guess. I don't think CC owned the tooling outright, so if Riv decided they were not worth upgrading, or that a contract with CC wasn't worth the hassle, I could see them ditching it.

Or they were bought by CC and transferred to China only to disappear into the same black hole that devoured the Deluxe line.

Or big needed to file a claim.  I wouldn't put anything past him.

[jmlaboda]

Considering that sets were marketed most recently by Arnold, not Concor, it may just be that Mr. Conway has finally got around to looking for them not realizing where they now are... to many golf games not enough marketing...

[thomasjmdavis]

Did the Con Cor email say that Con Cor had lost Con Cor's set of Rivarossi tooling, or did it say that Arnold (now Hornby) had lost Arnold's set of Rivarossi tooling?  I was under the impression that Con Cor had one set of tooling they used to produce the later models sold under their own label (ie- after Atlas dropped the Riv cars), but that was NOT the same tooling used by Arnold to produce the more recent runs labeled Arnold-Rivarossi or just Arnold. Or am I remembering being told something that isn't correct?

At any rate, ones I bought long ago say "Atlas made in Italy" but newer ones say "Rivarossi made in Italy"  and most recent ones say "Rivarossi Arnold made in Germany".  So at least there was separate tooling for the various names.  I could have sworn I had at least 1 or 2 that had Con Cor printed on them, but if so, they are hidden away where I can't find them. 

Anyway, the fact that most people I know who ever bought them still run them, and they are in retail stores after 40+ years is a testament to the tooling guys at Rivarossi back in the day.

CC still has 5 pages of them on their website, "on sale" for approximately 2.5 times what I paid for the ones I bought most recently (Arnold) and 5 times what I paid for my originals (Rivarossi). 

Also nice job on the AC ducts Doug!  Are those resin or squadron putty or?

[towl1996]

Also nice job on the AC ducts Doug!  Are those resin or squadron putty or?

For real. Any interest in making resin copies and offering them for sale?

[peteski]

At any rate, ones I bought long ago say "Atlas made in Italy" but newer ones say "Rivarossi made in Italy"  and most recent ones say "Rivarossi Arnold made in Germany".  So at least there was separate tooling for the various names.  I could have sworn I had at least 1 or 2 that had Con Cor printed on them, but if so, they are hidden away where I can't find them. 

Tooling can (and often is) modified. So it could be possible that there is only 1 set of molds and just the brand name has been modified.  Often  there is a telltale blank raised area where the old name was erased and new name engraved over that. But if done right, there is no visible artifact of the old name.

[dougnelson]

Also nice job on the AC ducts Doug!  Are those resin or squadron putty or?

The roof with AC was done long before the Micro-Trains heavyweights.  It was done with styrene strips, putty, and sanding.

 

For real. Any interest in making resin copies and offering them for sale?

Beyond my skill.  It is difficult casting a resin roof to fit perfectly.  The process is dimensionally unstable due to the rubber mold and varying temperatures.  Doesn't anyone have AC roofs for RR Pullmans on Shapeways?  That would be the way to go.

[ncbqguy]

While I did not witness the tooling being scrapped it is my understanding that ALL the Rivarossi, Lima, and original Arnold Rapido/Revell N Scale tooling was destroyed and most of the HO and O Scale as well.
The vast majority of the die bases and inserts were over 50 years old.   I had some discussions with Hornby about reviving some items but the economics of tooling today really make it more cost effective to make brand new items to today's standards rather than trying to upgrade old inserts and trying to make them work in new injection molding setups.
Charlie Vlk
Railroad Model Resources

[Point353]

I had some discussions with Hornby about reviving some items but the economics of tooling today really make it more cost effective to make brand new items to today's standards rather than trying to upgrade old inserts and trying to make them work in new injection molding setups.
Charlie Vlk
Railroad Model Resources

Maybe for Hornby, but Rapido Trains, for example, seems to make it sound as though the economics of tooling still represents a huge hurdle to be overcome.

[ncbqguy]

Tooling today is designed differently than it was in 1960.
For example, the old Roco freight car molds were designed to make 3 cars with each shot....you had to choose cars from three "families" of cars which shared certain tooling inserts.....components such as roofs, ends and floors.  Some Revell HO tooling was set up for massive presses that could handle multiple colors and also produced several products at the same time.
While wear in MR tooling is not a huge factor repairing and fitting existing hardened tooling to new bases and injection molding equipment is expensive.  Add to that the need for upgrading details and creating new mechanical/electrics to bring the products up to today's standards it could cost more to bring back an old product with compromises.   Better to start from scratch.
Charlie Vlk
Railroad Model Resources