Replacement Athearn Bombardier BiLevel Trucks, aka making the train roll

[Mark W]

I'd like to revisit this one since I'm just about done with my CalTrain MP36. 

I originally just lurked on this one since I only ever planned to pull 5 cars; figuring a heavy unit like the MP36 would have no trouble there.
But after running a quick test with my new power, and having it stall on nothing more than medium curve on level track, I am now officially joining the quest!

Am I understanding this correctly that things were left off with only a 15% increase in rolling distance?  As in, if the stock car rolled 100 inches, the improved car rolled 115 inches?


 

[peteski]

Ah, this was a fun thread to follow!
I'll be interested to see how Rapido will handle inside-bearing truck design in their Comet cars. So far Kato seems to have the best design, but still far from what we would like.  Unfortunately I think we have laws of physics working against us having really free-rolling inside bearing trucks in N scale.

[CNR5529]

Bushings and the wire low friction trucks were an improvement over the stock arrangement, but not quite as much as we were hoping. The last attempt will be made inline with how Rapido is doing the comets and LRCs... actual ball bearings. I did source some that should work, but after two full trainsets worth of testing, hobby funds are temporarily being diverted to other projects. Now that I have a photon though, I can print prototypes at home!

Having seen the Rapido samples, I am confident that this will be the way to go, a good looking truck that rolls!

[peteski]

Bushings and the wire low friction trucks were an improvement over the stock arrangement, but not quite as much as we were hoping. The last attempt will be made inline with how Rapido is doing the comets and LRCs... actual ball bearings. I did source some that should work, but after two full trainsets worth of testing, hobby funds are temporarily being diverted to other projects. Now that I have a photon though, I can print prototypes at home!

Having seen the Rapido samples, I am confident that this will be the way to go, a good looking truck that rolls!

Yes, ball bearings will work well (assuming that no grease but very light oil is used). The huge trade-off though is very poor electrical pickup (and passenger cars are often illuminated or even have DCC decoders for the cab lights).  Max tried to use those on his steam loco and due to poor electrical performance decided against it.  One could install wheel wipers, but that sort of defeats ball bearings.  @mmagliaro - maybe you can chime in and explain?  Or maybe Rapido solved the poor electrical conductivity?  I guess I'll find out when I get my batch of Comets.

[nkalanaga]

For illuminated cars, why not use batteries?  No track pickup needed.

For DCC it's more complicated, and I don't have a solution there, unless one wants to use head-end power, like the prototype.  Two wires could do it, and they could be hidden by the diaphragms.

[peteski]

For illuminated cars, why not use batteries?  No track pickup needed.
.

Because I hate batteries ! The need to be replaced (which means opening the car up), and often will leak electrolyte if left in the model, making a mess.

[mmagliaro]

I have seen this mentioned numerous times now, so...

Yes, I tested ball bearings for my 0-6-0 engine project.  I was thinking they would be super cool, would provide almost frictionless motion in the driver axles, and with all those balls rolling around between the two races, I figured there would be excellent pickup.  But slipping one on some axle stock, and turning the bearing while connected to an ohmmeter, I found that there actually was continuity through the bearing SO INFREQUENTLY as to be useless.  I'd say I was lucky if there was a complete circuit even 10% of the time.

I did consider using them with back-of-the-wheel wipers.  But I hate wheel wipers.  I went with the bronze bushings.

[delamaize]

For illuminated cars, why not use batteries?  No track pickup needed.

For DCC it's more complicated, and I don't have a solution there, unless one wants to use head-end power, like the prototype.  Two wires could do it, and they could be hidden by the diaphragms.

I've stated using Rapido's Easy peasy lighting system on my passenger cars. Basically drop in, and can be turned on and off with a magnet. They use button Cell batteries.

Looking at their design, It would be fairly simple to modify their boards to use in pretty much anything....

[Mark W]

Having seen the Rapido samples, I am confident that this will be the way to go, a good looking truck that rolls!

Did you get any photos?  I'm intrigued.


I did some initial experiments and my MP36 can now easily pull the 5 unit Baby Bullet without issue (and my 44 toner can pull 4 of them!), but I'm still struck by the challenge to get a 10 car train. 
At this point, acquiring 5 additional Bombardiers may be just as difficult.   

[delamaize]

Side note, if anyone has any sounder cars they want to sell, Let me know! lol

[Mark W]

Watched a set of 4 Bombardiers go for over 300 on eBay today.  Guess I won't be getting more for myself anytime soon! 

Here's my initial rolling test with a 3D printed 'knife edge' truck vs the original trucks.  Originals didn't even make it down the ramp! 
I also grabbed a Kato Amfleet for tinkering.  My 'knife edge' truck rolls slightly better than Kato, however I believe I can do a similar treatment to the Kato metal edge bearing and achieve even better rolling and maintain electrical pickup.  I have 5 pairs of Amfleet trucks on the way and will report back as testing continues.

[mrtinvan]

Well, I know this is a very old thread, but did anything ever come of your rev3? Did you publish rev1 or rev2 to Shapeways or Thingiverse?

[craigolio1]

We shelved the project until the Rapido LRCs came out to see how those trucks compared. And they were terrible. Haha. Actually they roll very well now after some tuning. And during the tuning process @CNR5529 snapped some of the Rapido LRC wheels and bearings into his V1.0 truck (the bearings conveniently were the same size as the bushings.) They roll beautifully on their own and even better with some weight. Which is the opposite of the other Two designs. So the concept would would for the bombardier trucks as well. We just need to source the bearings that will fit the Bombardier axels. I haven’t looked in a while but they were pricey so we held off until we could play with the LRC trucks. I’m interested in moving forward with a V3.

Craig

[Dwight in Toronto]

I’m a new participant on The Railwire, and have already learned a lot from recent discussions on Rapido’s N scale Canadian and FP9A releases.  This got me thinking … “Jeez, if anyone might have come up with a way to improve the horrid rolling characteristics of those Athearn Bombardier N scale coaches, it would be these guys”.  So, I did a search and found this topic.

Just had to laugh at Mark’s incline test - unfortunately, it is reminiscent of how, earlier this year, Rapido’s The Canadian coaches similarly got stuck at the top of a ramp, while Kato coaches would roll forever.

[craigolio1]

I’m a new participant on The Railwire, and have already learned a lot from recent discussions on Rapido’s N scale Canadian and FP9A releases.  This got me thinking … “Jeez, if anyone might have come up with a way to improve the horrid rolling characteristics of those Athearn Bombardier N scale coaches, it would be these guys”.  So, I did a search and found this topic.

Just had to laugh at Mark’s incline test - unfortunately, it is reminiscent of how, earlier this year, Rapido’s The Canadian coaches similarly got stuck at the top of a ramp, while Kato coaches would roll forever.

The Canadian coaches roll well with some easy modifications/tuning. These Athearn cars how ever are paper weights if you train is longer than three cars. Since the replacement trucks stalled until a suitable bearing can be found, I moved onto modifying locomotive to have a couple of traction tires. It’s done but I don’t have a layout to test it on yet, and COVID killed any chance of my N-Trak group getting together. 

Speaking of which, if you are in Toronto you should come and hang with us at a show sometime. We started as an N-Trak group and are now making the move to Free-Mo-N as many of us a trying to model more prototypical scenes.

Welcome to TRW. The quality of modelling, and people, here will inspire you.
Craig