Athearn Big Boy #4014

[atsf3751]

I now have this engine with an oil tender so that gives me every engine in the UP Heritage fleet. An AB set of E9's with a working beacon on the A courtesy of Richmond Controls, 844, 3985 and now 4014.

The new Big Boy does require a little work before using it. The tender (as usual) is five scale feet behind the engine, having corrected this on several other Athearn Big Boys and Challengers in the past, I know the process and it will take less than an hour to do. The tender will then be 18" behind the engine. This REALLY changes the look of the engine. You can't hear the whistle while the engine is running, the engine sounds completely mask it. The bell can't be heard at all. If this has a Loksound decoder then I will replace the sound file with the ESU Challenger sound file which does not have this problem. If it is not a Loksound decoder then I will have to mess with CVs.

Next to open the tender and see what speaker they are using, I suspect it is not a sugar cube so replacing that will improve the sound. Replace the tender coupler with an MT coupler and add one to the pilot which is designed for adding a coupler.

After this the engine will be ready to run and I am planning on running it Saturday with the Executive train.

[jereising]

Hope you have better luck than I did...

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=42386.0

[Xmtrman]

The decoders in the current run are supposed to be Soundtraxx.

Athearn has manuals on line: http://www.athearn.com/dcc/

[atsf3751]

An update. Before doing anything I did test run the engine and it ran perfectly forwards and backwards for 20 minutes each.

I have taken the tender apart and it is indeed a Soundtrax decoder so I am stuck with that sound file unless I replace it with a Loksound. That will require assistance from Athearn because all the leads going to the loco are black. But I will try adjusting the sound on the CVs first, the whistle and the bell are anemic. Thanks for the link to the manual.

I have replaced the speaker with a sugar cube and the sound is better now. They have changed the design of the drawbar a little so that took a little longer to do, but now that is done. Am doing final testing and reassembly now then will replace the couplers.

[robert3985]

An update. Before doing anything I did test run the engine and it ran perfectly forwards and backwards for 20 minutes each.

I have taken the tender apart and it is indeed a Soundtrax decoder so I am stuck with that sound file unless I replace it with a Loksound. That will require assistance from Athearn because all the leads going to the loco are black. But I will try adjusting the sound on the CVs first, the whistle and the bell are anemic. Thanks for the link to the manual.

I have replaced the speaker with a sugar cube and the sound is better now. They have changed the design of the drawbar a little so that took a little longer to do, but now that is done. Am doing final testing and reassembly now then will replace the couplers.

I prefer the Soundtraxx decoder over the Loksound specifically because of the whistle.  I also don't perceive any huge difference between the running qualities of either...much less than the difference in the running qualities of each of my more than a dozen Athearn Big Boys from a mechanical viewpoint.  The same can be said for the Athearn Challenger, as prototypically, the whistle UP used on their Big Boys, Challengers and FEF-3's was identical...and sounded the same since boiler pressure on all three was 300PSI.

To be a little more specific, the Loksound whistle sounds like crap...nowhere near what the prototype sounds like.  On the other hand, the Soundtraxx whistle is pretty close.

I also was not happy with the factory settings of the Soundtraxx decoders for my Big Boys and Challenger (but, I didn't expect to be happy with them), and with some experimentation and suggestions from other modelers, I was able to come up with settings that are very close to what I hear when I'm chasing the 844,  and the 3985.  A Big Boy is going to sound very much like the 3985, as most of their equipment was identical.

What I particularly like about the Soundraxx decoders is their high/middle/low equalizer settings, which is absent from the Loksound decoders.  Since "low" sound isn't going to be able to be reproduced from a tiny speaker in the tender of any N-scale engine, a noticeable improvement is achievable by shutting off all low frequency sound in the Soundtraxx decoders.

If you've never heard the 3985 run, you wouldn't know that a major component to its sound is rod clank.  It is very prominent in these ALCO engines, and needs to be turned way up in any fiddling with CV's.

Unfortunately, I have been moving to a new residence, and I don't have those CV settings at hand, but I'll post them here when I find them in the near future.

Just for giggles...here's a video of the 844 at Wahsatch so you can get a good idea of what the whistle of it, a UP Challenger and the Big Boy would have sounded like...

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Remember, because of the Doppler Effect, the whistle at 65mph coming toward you, is going to sound a bit higher in tone than it would if you were following the engine.

Additionally, the whistle that is currently on the 844 was taken from a Big Boy on static display a few years ago when the 844's whistle broke.  So, it's is an actual Big Boy whistle you hear when you hear the 844 whistling.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

 

[jdcolombo]

I prefer the Soundtraxx decoder over the Loksound specifically because of the whistle.  I also don't perceive any huge difference between the running qualities of either...much less than the difference in the running qualities of each of my more than a dozen Athearn Big Boys from a mechanical viewpoint.  The same can be said for the Athearn Challenger, as prototypically, the whistle UP used on their Big Boys, Challengers and FEF-3's was identical...and sounded the same since boiler pressure on all three was 300PSI.

To be a little more specific, the Loksound whistle sounds like crap...nowhere near what the prototype sounds like.  On the other hand, the Soundtraxx whistle is pretty close.

. . . .

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

Hi Bob.

You might want to rethink ESU.  Matt Hermann recorded 844 in action last year, and a brand new sound file for that is supposed to be out soon.  I'm sure he captured the whistle in all its glory as well as the rest of the engine sounds.  Of course, the 844 file won't have the necessary articulated chuffs for the Big Boy or Challenger, but I suspect Matt will replace the whistle sound in the Big Boy steam file, until he gets a chance to record 3985 (and eventually, the resurrected Big Boy).

My only problem with the Tsunami decoders is properly matching the chuffs to the driver rotation.  With the old Tsunami, this was darn near impossible unless you used a 28-step speed table and matched the locomotive speed to the chuff rate at each speed step.  I tried out the new Economi in one of my Kato Mikados, and while it was better, it was still impossible to match the chuff sound at speed steps 1-3 (out of 128) and still have it in sync above that.  The LokSound has a two-CV system for setting chuff rate that simply works - every time, with every locomotive.  But if you can get good chuff matching, the Tsunami's biggest advantage from my perspective is the sound equalizer - it really lets us get the best out of the tiny speakers we use, and I sure wish ESU had something similar.

Meanwhile, I'm waiting for Matt to record NKP 765.  It's on his list for next year, and I hope soon after that we'll have a sound file of the real 765, with its whistle and the characteristic super-power steam chuffs that are currently missing from ESU's steam lineup.  Their generic steam files are not very good, IMHO, but I've gone to ESU because of the chuff matching issue and the hope that soon I'll have a sound file of the real NKP 765 to use in all my Berks!

John C.

[robert3985]

Hi Bob.

You might want to rethink ESU.  Matt Hermann recorded 844 in action last year, and a brand new sound file for that is supposed to be out soon.  I'm sure he captured the whistle in all its glory as well as the rest of the engine sounds.  Of course, the 844 file won't have the necessary articulated chuffs for the Big Boy or Challenger, but I suspect Matt will replace the whistle sound in the Big Boy steam file, until he gets a chance to record 3985 (and eventually, the resurrected Big Boy).

My only problem with the Tsunami decoders is properly matching the chuffs to the driver rotation.  With the old Tsunami, this was darn near impossible unless you used a 28-step speed table and matched the locomotive speed to the chuff rate at each speed step.  I tried out the new Economi in one of my Kato Mikados, and while it was better, it was still impossible to match the chuff sound at speed steps 1-3 (out of 128) and still have it in sync above that.  The LokSound has a two-CV system for setting chuff rate that simply works - every time, with every locomotive.  But if you can get good chuff matching, the Tsunami's biggest advantage from my perspective is the sound equalizer - it really lets us get the best out of the tiny speakers we use, and I sure wish ESU had something similar.

Meanwhile, I'm waiting for Matt to record NKP 765.  It's on his list for next year, and I hope soon after that we'll have a sound file of the real 765, with its whistle and the characteristic super-power steam chuffs that are currently missing from ESU's steam lineup.  Their generic steam files are not very good, IMHO, but I've gone to ESU because of the chuff matching issue and the hope that soon I'll have a sound file of the real NKP 765 to use in all my Berks!

John C.

Thanks John for the update on the ESU decoder.  When it comes out, I will definitely give it a shot.

If I have to make a choice between matching chuffs to wheel rotation or quality of the whistle, I'll go with whistle quality every time!  Hey, but that's just my preference! 

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[atsf3751]

I have not changed any CVs yet so it might be fixable.

The whistle in its' default setting is nearly impossible to hear if the engine is moving and is farther from you than a couple feet. If I set a scale of 1-10 for volume, I would give the loco sounds a 10 and the whistle a 7. If you are in a rural setting the whistle on a real steam engine can be heard miles away and no engine sounds can be heard at all. The ESU sound file does do that.

I can hear the whistle at least 50' away (farther if in a quiet room) on the club layout with an ESU decoder, a Tsunami decoder I can hear the whistle five feet away if the engine is stationary with all other sounds disabled and the room is quiet.

Yes, Tsunami decoders have an equalizer but if I can't make the whistle to ALWAYS be the loudest sound and able to be heard at a distance, I will sacrifice that for a decoder that will give me the sounds I want. The sugar cube helped but not enough.

[atsf3751]

If I have to make a choice between matching chuffs to wheel rotation or quality of the whistle, I'll go with whistle quality every time!  Hey, but that's just my preference! 

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

I listened to your 844 video and liked it, but I can't tell if the whistle on 4014 sounds like that or not because it is too soft. I know it won't have the bass because of the small speaker but the whistle volume on a Loksound decoder is many, many times louder. If I can make the Tsunami decoder equal to Loksound then I will keep it, but right now not sure I can.

fixed quote tag -gfh

[robert3985]

Marty,

Here is John Colombo's post where he messes with the Sountraxx equipped Athearn Big Boy back in April of 2013.  This is where I started when messing with mine and many of the setting I left as John recommends. Here's the quote:

"I did some more tweaking, and here's where I ended up CV-wise (anything not on this list is factory default)

CV2 - 0
CV3 - 40
CV4 - 20
CV112 - 83 (sets articulated sound mode with "slow slip" to make the engines go in and out of sync slowly)
CV115 - 1 (different whistle; the "steamboat" whistle just doesn't do it for me with the small speaker in this engine)
CV116 - 122 (chuff rate)
CV128 - 192 (master volume; factory default)
CV129 - 225 (whistle volume)
CV130 - 30 (bell volume)
CV131 - 25 (exhaust volume)
CV132 - 48 (air pump volume; factory default)
CV133 - 8 (dynamo volume)
CV153 - 7 (enables user eq curve)
CV154 - 0
CV155 - 0
CV156 - 230
CV157 - 220
CV158 - 220
CV159 - 128 (factory default)
CV160 - 128 (factory default)
CV209 - 50
CV210 - 25

I haven't played around with the DDE sound effects yet, but probably will at some point.  I don't know why Athearn used such a dinky speaker given the size of the tender; I can't believe that engineering this to use a 14 x 25 or 16 x 30mm oval in an internal sealed enclosure would have been that difficult.  Speaker replacement is on my to-do list, but the sound is good enough now that such a project can be put off.  Still, it drives me nuts.  Doesn't anyone in the model train industry have a home stereo?  Bigger really is better on this front, and sealed boxes, folks, unless you're going to engineer a bass-reflex system, which would be mostly useless for the size of speakers we deal with (not so useless in HO).

John C. "

Especially important for proper "Big Boy" sound is changing the whistle to "1" as the factory set whistle (or "steamboat whistle" ) is totally incorrect.

Hope this assists you!

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[atsf3751]

Thanks Bob, I will give these a try.

The 3985 has the same sound so I assumed a Tsunami decoder as well. Pulled the tender shell off and found a 3.5 Loksound decoder. I will replace that one which will give me access to the vastly superior V4 sound file. I will try your CV settings on 4014 to see if that will work for me.

[atsf3751]

The CV changes in 4014 did make a considerable change to the sounds, now the whistle is louder than the rest of the sounds.

Now to figure out the new game the engine has started to play, it started this game before any CV changes. What it does now is stop at random times for a second then start rolling again at the set speed. Does not matter if it is on a curve, straight track, uphill or downhill. Sometimes it will go a couple scale miles before it does it and sometimes it won't go six feet without rebooting several times. Looks like a little maintenance disassembly will be needed along with sitting on my bench on some rollers so I can watch.

I know when it has done this if I wasn't watching because the headlight will be out.

[peteski]

The CV changes in 4014 did make a considerable change to the sounds, now the whistle is louder than the rest of the sounds.

Now to figure out the new game the engine has started to play, it started this game before any CV changes. What it does now is stop at random times for a second then start rolling again at the set speed. Does not matter if it is on a curve, straight track, uphill or downhill. Sometimes it will go a couple scale miles before it does it and sometimes it won't go six feet without rebooting several times. Looks like a little maintenance disassembly will be needed along with sitting on my bench on some rollers so I can watch.

I know when it has done this if I wasn't watching because the headlight will be out.

So does the sound also stop and restarts during these events?  If yes, then the problem most likely is with the problem with track power pickup. I would thoroughly clean the wheels and track before any more advanced troubleshooting.

[jereising]

That's why mine went back to Athearn - intermittent power disruptions.  The track and wheels were squeaky clean.  Something costs that much, I'm not gonna do Athearn's work for them.  Almost acts like there's no Keep-alive cap connected.

[peteski]

I'm a bit confused by all the decoder brands mentioned - I hope someone can clarify it.
The 1st run had a factory-installed MRC sound decoder.
The 2nd run (which I own) had a factory-installed Soundtraxx Tsunami sound decoder.
What decoder does the 3rd (current) run has installed in the factory? Soundtraxx or ESU?