DIY Laser Decals - Comparing Decal Papers

[C855B]

In playing with DIY decals this week, I discovered important differences between the two different decal sheets I had on hand. Printer is an HP M452dn, which does a very good job with high resolution - 1200x2400 - and, frankly, yields higher-quality decals than Microscale, at least with their UP sets. (Yes, counting my blessings to need decals without white, yellow or metallics.) I used Testor's "decal bonder" as a fixative.

First paper I tried was Micro-Mark clear. It printed well. I was surprised by it sliding off the backing within a couple of seconds in the water. Positioning was challenging, but manageable. After two "coats" of MicroSol, I hit it with Dullcote. Generally a good look, until under strong light where the edge of the decal film was visible. So it's pretty thick.

Other paper was Walthers "Decal Line" matte finish, 934-706821. I had it sitting around for several years; it's discontinued. Printed great. Takes 4-5 minutes in the water to release. It handled a lot better than the M-M - less "squirrelly". Frankly, I was impressed how easily it handled and didn't distort, even with fine striping. Same MicroSol and Dullcote steps. Film and film edge was absolutely invisible after the Dullcote.

So you see my dilemma - I have a great sheet that works very well in my process which is now made of unobtainium. It's thin and strong, and handles well. Walthers (...for example...) now carries four different brands of sheet - Testor, Evans Design, Kadee and Microscale. Can anybody relate experiences with these sheets... hopefully to prevent this incorrigible experimenter to try out all of them himself.   

[peteski]

I use and really like Bare-Metal Foil laser decal sheets with my Alps printer.  You might want to give it a try.
http://bare-metal.com/Experts-Choice-Decal-Film.html

Then there is Tangopapa decal paper (made for Alps, but should work fine in laser printer). That is the thinnest film I have ever worked with (but it is also fairly fragile).
http://tangopapadecals.com/paper.htm
If you find it too fragile, Tom makes slightly thicker version (you have to ask for it).

[tom mann]

The thin paper from http://www.decalpaper.com always worked for me.

[peteski]

While BEL decal paper (the source Tom mentioned) might work well with laser printers but over the years there have been many members of the Alps Yahoo groups who had problems with that brand.  I'm just throwing this out as a warning if someone who owns Alps printer runs in to this thread later.

[C855B]

Pete - the Bare-Metal decal paper doesn't like my laser printer. It shadows in the fuser; by "shadow" I mean ghosts of graphics as toner retained by the fuser roller and then deposited on the sheet further down. The more CMYK components in the color, the worse it got. I think the problem is the thick backing sinking away too much fuser heat, so the toner is not fully fused to the sheet. I tried multiple settings and the best was still "transparency", but it was actually just least-bad.

The paper Tom suggested is still in transit and I'll post the results once I have a chance to test. It's going to be a real pill if the best paper is still the now-nonexistent Walthers stuff.

[peteski]

You can also try Tangopapa decal paper.  Here is a list I compiled few years ago for Alps (as I mentioned Alps uses laser printer decal paper).

Here is a list of ALPS (or laser) Decal Paper suppliers I've encountered.
I have personally used ones marked with "X".

CAUTION! WARNING: Do not use any InkJet decal paper in Alps printers!  It might
damage Alps ink ribbons and the printhead. Only use decal paper designed for
Laser printers (or specifically for Alps MD series printers).  This warning is
included in all of Alps MD series printer's manuals.

X --- http://bare-metal.com/Experts-Choice-Decal-Film.html

Good quality thin film.  This is my favorite paper.  It is quite thin and it ages well.  I  had this film stored together with Tangopapa film for a year or two in a sealed ziploc bag.  When I tried to use Tangopapa film it was all shattered, while this film was perfectly fine.  While it is a bit thicker than Tangopapa it is still quite thin.

X --- http://micro-mark.com/ (search that site for "decal paper" for laser printers).

Good quality, medium thin film.  EXTRA NOTE ON THIS VENDOR:  Seems that they have changed suppliers.  They now sell Laser paper which comes with protective plastic sheet.  That sheet makes the decal surface a bit mottled.  I suspect that they are reselling Beldecal paper.

X --- http://tangopapadecals.com/prod01.htm

Excellent quality very thin film. Highly recommended by most Alps owners. Available in 3 film thicknesses:

"175" very thin
"156" standard (still quite thin by my standards)
"110" thick

So far I've only tried "156".
They also sell uncoated decal paper by special request. My personal experience shows that the film is very thin (which is a good feature) and fragile (that is
not so good). It also has limited shelf life.   The clear film cracks into very fine pieces. That happens even when stored in a sealed Ziploc plastic bag.

X --- http://microscale.com/trimfilm.htm

Excellent quality thin film. Can also be ordered in 8.5"x11" sheets.

--- http://papilio.com/

I've never used it but it is recommended by others. They also sell uncoated decal paper in min. quant. of 10. Look for "Perga Flat Paper" under the "Laser Media" list.

--- http://texascraft.com/hps/home.php?cat=267 (Papilio paper)

--- http://walthers.com

Walthers is a large distributor/manufacturer of model railroad items. I'm told that their decal film is fairly thick and sturdy. Might be good choice for larger decals.  It's shelf life is good (probably due to the thickness). It comes in flat or glossy finish, which is different than the other  brands.  Part numbers: 934-706820, 934-706821, 934-706822, 934-706823.

--- http://www.beldecal.com/
or
--- http://www.decalpaper.com

I never used it. Some users like it and many others don't. Quality and customer support doesn't seem to be consistent.  I've been told that their laser paper has a protective plastic sheet which seems to cause a mottled surface on the decal sheet.  Bel Decal also supplies larger sheets of clear decal paper.  See their website (under Commercial Decals Paper). It looks like 26" X 40" is largest sheet listed.

--- http://www.btowstore.com/epages/BT2862.sf

I never used it. The above Lazertran website is for UK.

[C855B]

Thanks for the analysis, Pete.

The BEL paper from decalpaper.com arrived this morning. Once I finally figured out how to peel off the overlay (really thin!)... it prints great! Very, very sharp. The instructions emphasized using a "just turned on" printer - IOW, starting with a from-cold fuser. That was impossible with my test art since it takes the printer about 10 minutes to digest the 2400x2400 image, and it's warming-up during rasterization. But obviously no problem at all. This is the best imaging I've seen yet.

Once chores around the house are done I'll head over to the studio for the acid tests.

EDIT: The BEL decals separated from the backing in under a minute, went on great, were easy to handle, and dense color. Only my hamfisted shoving around with a fingernail (oops) created any issue with the image. No visible film, even before Dullcote. We have a winnah!

[C855B]

Speaking of DIY laser decals... anybody seriously solve the white problem yet? Uh... at a reasonable cost? CMYKW appears to be the hang-up. There are a couple of suppliers with a $4000 printer where you swap out the black toner for a white cartridge, so they're still a 4-color engine. There's one 5-color machine (an Oki engine, apparently) sold under three or four brands, but it starts at $22K. Ouch.

[peteski]

You're welcome!
Alps exerts a lot of pressure on the decal paper during printing and even with the protective film removed the Bel-brand clear decal film seems to delaminate from the backing paper. But since laser printers work different way, it probably works fine in that application.

I belong to 2 Alps Yahoo groups (with about 4500 members in each) and from time to time this subject comes up. From what we see, OKI 711WT or OKI 941 are the only semi-affordable replacement for Alps (as far as white ink and white undercoat for CYM inks go).

I recently saw a decal printed on OKI 711WT and I was not impressed (when comparing to Alps MD printed decals).  Color registration was a big part of the issue, and so was the toner density.  But it could be the printing technique/settings (the color density). And of course none of those OKI printers can't print metallic or metal foil inks.

[C855B]

... I recently saw a decal printed on OKI 711WT and I was not impressed (when comparing to Alps MD printed decals).  Color registration was a big part of the issue, and so was the toner density.  But it could be the printing technique/settings (the color density). And of course none of those OKI printers can't print metallic or metal foil inks.

It could easily be how the image was presented to the printer, and the printer's raster engine. On mine, if I compose the art and print it directly from InDesign, printer will default to 600x1200, and I have no say in the matter. Looks like crap. Export to PDF and print from Acrobat improves (1200x1200), but still not good enough. So I then import the PDF to Photoshop, force it to raster to a 2400x2400 image (yes, huge), and print from Photoshop. That works. That's a way of saying that I suspect the Oki engine might be able to be manipulated that way, but OTOH the white layer has to be expressed as a separate vector layer to be rasterized in the printer's engine... so... I don't know. I'd have to spend time with it.

What I have read is the "cheaper" Oki printers are 600x1200, and that won't do. The Oki C941 (CMYKW, $20K) is 1200x1200.

In more testing this morning, my home-brew decals don't pass muster for dark surfaces. Gotta have that white behind the color.

[peteski]

It could easily be how the image was presented to the printer, and the printer's raster engine. On mine, if I compose the art and print it directly from InDesign, printer will default to 600x1200, and I have no say in the matter. Looks like crap. Export to PDF and print from Acrobat improves (1200x1200), but still not good enough. So I then import the PDF to Photoshop, force it to raster to a 2400x2400 image (yes, huge), and print from Photoshop. That works. That's a way of saying that I suspect the Oki engine might be able to be manipulated that way, but OTOH the white layer has to be expressed as a separate vector layer to be rasterized in the printer's engine... so... I don't know. I'd have to spend time with it.

What I have read is the "cheaper" Oki printers are 600x1200, and that won't do. The Oki C941 (CMYKW, $20K) is 1200x1200.

In more testing this morning, my home-brew decals don't pass muster for dark surfaces. Gotta have that white behind the color.

LOL!  My 600x600 dpi Alps printer produces perfect N scale decals (down to very small lettering). But Alps used different printing technology than lasers.  I do prety much all the artwork in vector format. That way there are no worries about resolution compatibility. But if I did my artwork as 600x600 dpi raster, it would print just as sharp as vectors on my Alps printer.

I have not looked int the OKI 711WT driver.  Why would it require vector-format white while it can handle raster format for CYM colors?  That seems odd.

[C855B]

... Why would it require vector-format white while it can handle raster format for CYM colors?  That seems odd.

It is the way I would expect it to work, but that said I don't know the specific rasterization engine they're using. There would have to be something very special about it, such as a masking mode that would mess with the normal print order, print black as white first and know that it has to print under any other color at 100%. My head is spinning thinking through the "exception" algorithms that would make this happen versus the normal YMCK deposition sequence, especially doing this against the mechanical toner order.

IOW, I want to know how Oki puts white in the black position - normally last - and makes it print first. In the thinking about it, that might be the registration problem you were seeing - two passes. Push the paper through twice to print the black station first (with white toner in it), then follow with a color pass. The mind boggles.

Vector versus raster is tricky when you get into spot colors, and white is going to be a non-process spot color. Of course you can put down a rasterized mask (or whatever), but is your image source data going to understand that? How is it going to be communicated to the printer? Is a white layer possible in, say, JPEG? Trap, or not, and if so, how much? It's been nearly two decades since I've been hands-on programming rasterization engines, but these are the kind of details that used to keep me up at night in managing pre-press operations.

[peteski]

It is the way I would expect it to work, but that said I don't know the specific rasterization engine they're using. There would have to be something very special about it, such as a masking mode that would mess with the normal print order, print black as white first and know that it has to print under any other color at 100%. My head is spinning thinking through the "exception" algorithms that would make this happen versus the normal YMCK deposition sequence, especially doing this against the mechanical toner order.

IOW, I want to know how Oki puts white in the black position - normally last - and makes it print first. In the thinking about it, that might be the registration problem you were seeing - two passes. Push the paper through twice to print the black station first (with white toner in it), then follow with a color pass. The mind boggles.

Vector versus raster is tricky when you get into spot colors, and white is going to be a non-process spot color. Of course you can put down a rasterized mask (or whatever), but is your image source data going to understand that? How is it going to be communicated to the printer? Is a white layer possible in, say, JPEG? Trap, or not, and if so, how much? It's been nearly two decades since I've been hands-on programming rasterization engines, but these are the kind of details that used to keep me up at night in managing pre-press operations.

You are too familiar with the printing processes and you are applying too much logic into this. 

OKI 711WT is based on a standard CYMK color printer hardware -  the black toner cartridge is replaced with white.  And guess what? White ink is applied last!  Not very handy for printing decals. We had a OKI salesman join the Alps yahoo group pushing the 711WT as a replacement for our Alps MD printers. But he didn't offer and good technical specs (like true resolution).  His solution for printing white-undercoated decals is to print the artwork onto a special toner transfer sheet, marry it to a blank sheet of clear decal paper and run that through a laminator. The heat transfers the (now properly ordered) toners from the transfer sheet to the decal film.  Nowhere as convenient as Alps printer, but I guess that when all the Alps printers die out, this will have to do.  Still, it can't handle metallic and foil inks that Alps does.

I believe that OKI C941 has 5 toner transfer units and it will correctly apply white toner under CYM inks.

With Alps and all the spot colror modes, all of this is nice and easy.

[C855B]

You are too familiar with the printing processes and you are applying too much logic into this.  ...

Clearly. 

I believe that OKI C941 has 5 toner transfer units and it will correctly apply white toner under CYM inks.

Yep, that's what I see, too, and that's what it's going to take, five colors, no waiting. And I only need 20 of my bestest Railwire friends to contribute $1000 each so I can buy one.

[peteski]

Yep, that's what I see, too, and that's what it's going to take, five colors, no waiting. And I only need 20 of my bestest Railwire friends to contribute $1000 each so I can buy one.

. . . or farm out the printing of your low-volume decal artwork to a custom decal printing outfit which uses Alps printer.