NSE Naval Gun Set

[Alwyn Cutmore]

Doug those HO Models look good and a F22 Should not be too hard to scratchbuild. I guess they would have still been in use around 1952 as the Korean conflict would have still been going on then. Could more than likely use a couple of Red Caboose 42 Flats and a bit of a cut and shut.


Regards

Al

[chicken45]

Doug those HO Models look good and a F22 Should not be too hard to scratchbuild. I guess they would have still been in use around 1952 as the Korean conflict would have still been going on then. Could more than likely use a couple of Red Caboose 42 Flats and a bit of a cut and shut.


Regards

Al

If you look in the pic, the idler is actually an FM (40 ft).
As for Korea...I don't know. All my books are in deep storage for now. The biggest difference is the deck. F22 had wood, F23 had steel. There were also a few different configurations, of the decks, too.

[Alwyn Cutmore]

Looking at the photo of the two F22 flats they appear to be carrying a 16"/50 caliber Mark 7 – United States Naval Gun which was the type fitted to the Iowa Class Battle Ship. The length of the barrel for that class by what is written is about 66ft 6in. Each gun weighed about 239,000 pounds without the breech block. The Iowa Class included the USS Iowa and I believe the USS Missouri (Big Mo). Please correct me if I am wrong here but I do believe that they were the biggest battleships in the USN. While the models look impressive I am now under the impression that even the barrel is a Foibe. The only barrel I ever saw anywhere around that length was a French Shore Battery Gun barrel that had been blown off its' mount on Cape St Jacques in South Vietnam. That thing was a serious piece of metal but looking at Google Maps it does not seem to have survived the Nth Vietnam occupation.

So with that in mind I would rather go for a full scratchbuild/kitbash. By the way the Iowa and the Missouri were both deployed to the Korean Campaign. So I would gather that gun refits would have been undertaken at the time.     

[Altoona]

You can throw USS New Jersey and USS Wisconsin into the Iowa Class battleships

Judd Barton

[dougnelson]

Looking at the photo of the two F22 flats they appear to be carrying a 16"/50 caliber Mark 7 – United States Naval Gun which was the type fitted to the Iowa Class Battle Ship. The length of the barrel for that class by what is written is about 66ft 6in. Each gun weighed about 239,000 pounds without the breech block. The Iowa Class included the USS Iowa and I believe the USS Missouri (Big Mo). Please correct me if I am wrong here but I do believe that they were the biggest battleships in the USN. While the models look impressive I am now under the impression that even the barrel is a Foibe. The only barrel I ever saw anywhere around that length was a French Shore Battery Gun barrel that had been blown off its' mount on Cape St Jacques in South Vietnam.

The 16"/50 caliber guns were (still are) the largest naval guns, so any gun longer than 66'-6" is fantasy. In addition to battleships, these guns were also used in coastal defenses including bunkers in the Marin Headlands near my home (our local "Guns of Navarone"). They were however, never fired in anger during WWII. Also of interest is that each gun needed re-machining after firing 390 rounds, so they were regularly transported back and forth.

[espeefan]

in WW1, the Furious class of battlecruiser mounted 18" rifles, one per turret which of course were removed when Furious became the 1st true aircraft carrier. They were later mounted in an ocean going monitor.  Yamato class carried 40 cm guns (18,1/45s).  also, the US 16"/50s designed for the Lexington class battlecruisers were slightly longer, I think-a foot or two anyway. Too heavy for the Iowas, they were used as coastal artillery.  The Nagatos had 16.1" guns but were lighter and shorter. 

[muktown128]

Iowa class battleships:
USS Iowa  BB-61
USS New Jersey  BB-62
USS Missouri  BB-63
USS Wisconsin  BB-64

USS New Jersey was re-activated during the Vietnam War.
All 4 Iowa class battleships were re-activated during the 1980's as part of the 600 ship fleet build-up. 
USS New Jersey bombarded Lebanon after the Marine Corp barracks was destroyed.
USS Missouri and USS Wisconsin took part in Operation Desert Storm, launching Tomahawk cruise missiles.

[wazzou]

I boarded the Missouri in Astoria, OR in 1998 when it docked at its last mainland port after it had been decommissioned and was headed to Pearl Harbor.

[casmmr]

The weapon while not based upon any real weapon, could be a proto type being sent for testing.  Now you can justify running it on your layout.

[Kiasutha]

While it's not based on a real naval gun, US or otherwise, the model is shorter than the Krupp "Paris Gun"of WW1.
Then "way out in left field", there was "Project Harp".
Based on the naval 16"L50, it's final version was WAY longer...

[prbharris]

I'm mostly critical about ride height ...It's a 30 foot flat. It needs to ride low. I'm worried about couplers, too. Needs to be a MTL 2004 or something.

You are right that the height of the couplers make things very difficlut to get a very low ride height. But I am trying my best to get a very low car.

and the surface of the metal

I will try even harder to get the metal flowing differently for a better surface on the flat car F23 - but the F22 had a wood deck - and I am planning to have a laser cut wood deck that will cover any blemishes on the top.

Peter

Peter Harris
N Scale Kits
www.nscalekits.com

[NSEGeorge]

So here is the actual story of the NSE model straight from Fred Hoxsie, who is in charge of all things Special Run from the NSE.

"We like to have things that are relevant and unique from the area where the convention is every year. I saw this picture in one of my books, and fell in love with it. While it is totally clear from the photos that the cars were 40 footers, the only flats that were available to us were the 50' MTL flats. Rather than have the model look wrong, we decided to invert the model railroad axiom of selective compression, and selectively expanded the gun barrel so it 'looked right' on the longer flat. If Peter's flats were available at the time, we would have used those instead, as we have done a number of Special Runs with his fine products, and hope to continue to do so in the future. So- no intent to pass this off as a accurate model, just to offer something unique and proportionate while we were in the area."

So there you have it. Hopefully, no one was too offended. 

NSE George

[chicken45]

You are right that the height of the couplers make things very difficlut to get a very low ride height. But I am trying my best to get a very low car.

I will try even harder to get the metal flowing differently for a better surface on the flat car F23 - but the F22 had a wood deck - and I am planning to have a laser cut wood deck that will cover any blemishes on the top.

Peter

Peter Harris
N Scale Kits
www.nscalekits.com

Hey Peter!
That's great to hear. I LOVE when manufacturers listen to us. THANK YOU!
 
I'm more concerned with the car sides than the deck. The deck is easy to sand. Sanding around the stake pockets-not so much.

[chicken45]

Also, @prbharris , there are at least 2 versions of F22 decks.

One is just a normal deck. The other is with the bridge.  Basically, theres a hole in the center of the car so the bridge can pivot.
https://www.shapeways.com/product/D5MW44WSL/prr-f22-w-bridge-in-n-scale?optionId=42042017

[prbharris]

there are at least 2 versions of F22 decks...One is just a normal deck. The other is with the bridge.  Basically, theres a hole in the center of the car so the bridge can pivot.

Thanks for that - my PRR bible - Gatwood and Buchan's 'PRR Flat Cars' does not make that at all clear! I think that there were 20 F22 fitted with the pivots in 1940 increased to 66 later in the war, assigned in couplets to the east coast to carry  the complete sets of a battleship's gun complement.

There were other bridges built to hold equipment - with some very interesting modeling possibilities.

concerned with the car sides than the deck. The deck is easy to sand. Sanding around the stake pockets-not so much.

A fair point but the sides of our new FM car seem to be turning out OK - although since it is available in both with and without stake pockets [the later for their later container service], the plastic stake pockets being added if required for the orginal set up of the FM cars, this is less of an issue - but the rivet detail makes it important that the sides mold properly!

Thank you for all of the background help.

Peter

Peter Harris
N Scale Kits
www.nscalekits.com