Cells getting decent shots

[p51]

They work great for simple focus points. I took this shot just as a test last night, and I think it worked out okay:

[Lemosteam]

They work great for simple focus points. I took this shot just as a test last night, and I think it worked out okay:

Redo this in sepia and you have a total winner!

[p51]

I couldn’t resist using my cell's ‘eye level’ advantage when getting this shot last night of a truck I'd just finished painting and weathering:

[chicken45]

How are yinz guys even doing Helicon focus on iPhone?

[peteski]

How are yinz guys even doing Helicon focus on iPhone?

The DOF of most phone cameras is so good that focus stacking is not needed. Especially with larger scale models (like 0). @Chris333 has taken some really good and sharp photos of one of his layout using IIRC selective focus feature on his Android phone.

[chicken45]

The DOF of most phone cameras is so good that focus stacking is not needed. Especially with larger scale models (like 0). @Chris333 has taken some really good and sharp photos of one of his layout using IIRC selective focus feature on his Android phone.

I model N scale, but soon I'll be switching to HO.

It is hard to take a photo of a train at an angle. Like, a 3/4 view of of a steam loco. I use an app called Camera+ that allows for some manual controls. It has a macro mode that lets me take shots like this:


It has problems with angles, but then again, I'm not setting the ISO low, nor am I doing long exposures or using a tripod.

I guess I thought focus stacking would be the solution to my problem.  I admit I don't know much about photography.

[robert3985]

The DOF of most phone cameras is so good that focus stacking is not needed. Especially with larger scale models (like 0). @Chris333 has taken some really good and sharp photos of one of his layout using IIRC selective focus feature on his Android phone.

Wellll...I both agree and disagree with you Peter @peteski .  Cell phone cameras work best in larger scales for close-up layout photography, and the simple reason is that you don't have to get as close to your subject as you do in N-scale. 

One of the little-discussed-facts about Depth of Field (DOF) is that the closer you get, the narrower your DOF becomes.  This means that even a couple of inches further away from a subject will greatly enhance the DOF in the photo, from just the tip of the subject's nose when you're really close, to both her nose and the mountains in the distance if you move back a few inches.

The bad thing about cell phone cameras is that you can't manually set the f-stop.  Phone manufacturers think the world's population is too stupid to be able to do that I assume, so you are forced to accept whatever f-stop your camera thinks will make a "good" photo, of course generalizing in the most extreme way what it thinks "good" is, so we are stuck with what DOF the cell phone thinks is appropriate.

My old Samsung Galaxy S5 has a nifty "magnifier" feature, which allows me to get macro shots, and in the regular camera settings it'll automatically stack two photos about 75% of the time if I use the "selective focus" feature.

However, for certain N-scale shots, stacking two photos isn't enough, and if I get REALLY close, even a short car, such as a caboose will only have about 80% in focus if I'm taking a 3/4 shot of it.

If I could manually set my f-stop, I am sure model train photos with cell phone cameras would be MUCH more versatile.

One way to get the camera to stop down the f-stop to a small opening (increasing your DOF) is to use natural sunlight to light your N-scale models.  This is impractical of course if you don't have modules or a portable layout to set up in the bright sun.  Bright photo lamps are the indoor answer...the brighter the better...adding inconvenience and cost as well as the occasional melted plastic model too.

For overall, bird's eye shots of my layout, the cell phone cam works pretty good, but if I want to add just a bit more drama by getting closer, either the closest part or the furthest part of my layout that's in the photo will be out of focus.  Luckily, the Samsung "selective focus" feature works fairly well to fix that problem most of the time.

If I want to take a 3/4 view of a whole train with it all in focus, the cell phone camera is crap....unless you make a camera holder (or buy one, if you can find an appropriate one)...or if you're Gary @GaryHinshaw and can hold your phone steady enough and in one position long enough to get 4 to 6 identical enough shots (identical as possible in exposure and composition) with appropriately progressively chosen focus points, so that your focus stacking software will accept them and combine them for you.

The November 2017 issue of Model Railroader has a helpful article by Pelle Soeborg (Take publication-grade images using these these techniques) about what he did to enable him to get enough control of his iPhone 7 to take multiple photos to combine using Photoshop or Helicon Focus.  He also built an iPhone holder out of Styrene and installed an app from Adobe which gives him better focusing control (Adobe Lightroom App).  Photos of his HO scale UP trains are very impressive!

For me, the most simple method of obtaining extreme DOF and excellent quality is to use my DSLR with my ultra-wide 11mm-16mm f2.8 zoom on it.  DOF is greatest in wide angle lenses, and they usually focus fairly close also.  Mine doesn't focus as close as I'd like, but I still get good, extreme DOF shots with it...with no focus stacking necessary.  The only problem is that my Nikon is a big camera, so I have to do things like flip it upside down and use live view to get the position and angle I want.

Here are some photos to illustrate the points I've written about...

Photo (1) - Single exposure photo from Samsung Galaxy S5 for 3/4 view shot of CA-3 caboose project showing "good DOF" isn't good enough in N-scale:


So, what's the cell phone solution?

Photo (2) - Two exposure stack using Samsung "Selective Focus" feature, which improves DOF, but still leaves distant objects out of focus, which in this case is what I wanted:


Photo (3) - Two exposure stack using Samsung "Selective Focus" feature on a 15' long scene at Echo Yard.  Note how a portion of the train is out of focus as well as the signal head:


So, what's the cell phone solution?  Take this "pose" again, but select focus points by tapping them until you get enough in-focus shots that are suitable for combining in the focus-stacking software of your choice.....
....OR....
...Use your DSLR with appropriate lens, in manual mode, stopping the f-stop down to at least f/16 or f/22...

Photo (4) - Same general "pose" with a bit of Photoshopping taken with one shot using my Nikon D7200, upside down, with my Tokina UW zoom 11mm-16mm at f/22:


Photo (5) - Upside down Nikon D7200 at the west signal of Echo Yard:


As soon as I have my layout up in it's new trainroom, I'll see what the Adobe Lightroom App does for me in being able to more precisely choose focus points with my phone for stacking in Helicon Focus Pro.  Although I love the quality I get with my DSLR, I love the positioning I can get with my phone....which is impossible with my big Nikon. 

I'm also considering trying out some auxiliary lenses for the phone...particularly a wide angle to see if I can get an increase in close-up DOF and a more prototype looking perspective.  They're cheap enough so I won't feel particularly cheated if they're junk.  We'll see....

Using HF is really going to make a big difference in my photography if I can do it with my Samsung.  But, gotta get the layout up first!

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[Chris333]

Bob, in your "photo 2" If I try to take a photo like that with selective focus it never turns out right and something pops up that tells me I need a further distance between the 2 objects.

This would be my try at your "photo 1"

[robert3985]

Bob, in your "photo 2" If I try to take a photo like that with selective focus it never turns out right and something pops up that tells me I need a further distance between the 2 objects.

This would be my try at your "photo 1"

Chris, Samsung's selective focus (for me) only works about 50 to 75 percent of the time.  It seems to help if I focus on a near object that extends through the photo, like a rail, or an edge on a car that runs the length of the car.  I tap the screen, telling the camera what my close focus is, and then it automatically focuses on the far focal point.  Sometimes, like in the extreme length train shots, the two photos when combined, aren't in focus in the middle of the subject.

What I'm saying is that it's a hit & miss proposition, and many times, the damn camera just won't do the "selective focus" at all using the angle and position I like the best!

That problem is why I'm looking forward to using the Adobe Lightroom app and then combining in HF on my desktop.  I think it's gonna open up a new world for me.

Pelle Soeborg chose the iPhone 7 because of its offset camera lens, which I think is a really good reason.  I've been thinking about getting a used one just for the camera which will get down to the "ground" better than the centered camera on the Samsung, although the sensor megapixel count on the Samsung is significantly more than the iPhone 7.

Tradeoffs....hmmmph!

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[chicken45]

"We put a man on the moon with less technology than a calculator, but we can't get a phone camera that works well for N scale."
     -Eric @seusscaboose Payne, probably

[peteski]

Bob, you are correct on all the points you brought up   But I'm not even sure if cell pone cameras (with their minuscule lenses) even have adjustable mechanical apertures to be controlled.

As far as DOF goes, the small lenses (or very short distance from lens to the imaging surface - someone explained that  another thread here) results in greater DOF than a camera with larger lenses and imaging element.  The bottom line is that in my experience the miniature cameras produce photos greater DOF.

[dougnelson]

"We put a man on the moon with less technology than a calculator, but we can't get a phone camera that works well for N scale."
     -Eric @seusscaboose Payne, probably

True confessions time. ....One giant step for mankind.  If you have seen my article on N scale vehicles in the new N Scale Railroading mag, the entire article - 35 photos - were taken with my iPhone 6.  Most photos were stacks processed with Helicon Focus.  It’s actually simple and quick to use the iPhone with Helicon.

[peteski]

True confessions time. ....One giant step for mankind.  If you have seen my article on N scale vehicles in the new N Scale Railroading mag, the entire article - 35 photos - were taken with my iPhone 6.  Most photos were stacks processed with Helicon Focus.  It’s actually simple and quick to use the iPhone with Helicon.

That was a really well done article Doug - congratulations!
But now give us more details on how the photos are done.

[dougnelson]

It’s pretty straightforward. You touch around the screen to set various focal points. The phone needs to be in a tripod or taped to a steady base.  Process as usual with Helicon Focus.

[peteski]

It’s pretty straightforward. You touch around the screen to set various focal points. The phone needs to be in a tripod or taped to a steady base.  Process as usual with Helicon Focus.

That is simple enough. Thanks Doug!