Another GG1

[Dave V]

I have no problem with BLI favoring Pennsy models, but why another GG1? Pennsy had oodles and oodles of iconic and unique motive power (models of which I'm sure would sell very well to SPFs and to casual collectors).

This.

'Course I also forgot that other ubiquitous electric icon of the PRR electrified territory...the MP54 MU cars.  That's never going to happen in N.

[draskouasshat]

I have no problem with BLI favoring Pennsy models, but why another GG1? Pennsy had oodles and oodles of iconic and unique motive power (models of which I'm sure would sell very well to SPFs and to casual collectors).

I kind of have a problem with it Pete! Time to expand to the santa fe market. You UP,SP,PRR goons have gotten enough goodies in the last few years. Im restarting a trend, time to say how much an atsf (insert model here) would sell better than xxxxxx model that has just been announced! It works right SPFs?

Adam

[Dave V]

I kind of have a problem with it Pete! Time to expand to the santa fe market. You UP,SP,PRR goons have gotten enough goodies in the last few years. Im restarting a trend, time to say how much an atsf (insert model here) would sell better than xxxxxx model that has just been announced! It works right SPFs?

Adam

Recommend starting a company called 'Super Chief" then, LOL.   

[peteski]

I kind of have a problem with it Pete! Time to expand to the santa fe market. You UP,SP,PRR goons have gotten enough goodies in the last few years. Im restarting a trend, time to say how much an atsf (insert model here) would sell better than xxxxxx model that has just been announced! It works right SPFs?

Adam

My response was to the statement that Broadway Limited (BLI), even going by its name, seems to be biased towards producing Pennsy models.  Or did ATSF also have a train name Broadway Ltd.?  

[atsf3751]

Not being a manufacturer my following comments do not necessarily represent them, but they are based on what I have seen.

When a manufacturer decides to make a new locomotive, they will first look at the engines that have proven track records. The iconic engines. This includes the Big Boy, Challenger, Cab Forward, PA, F7, GG1, K4, GS-4, Mikado, SD40-2 and even the Big Blow Turbine. There are more, but you get the idea. You can take an F7 with Santa Fe passenger warbonnet just about anywhere in the world and it is almost instantly recognized. This is what all manufacturers want for their products because it means sales.

I think there are usually a few years before a new model is made of an existing model so that there is pent up demand. That didn't happen with the GG1 because Kato is still making them, so BLI must be thinking that they can make a better model. Not sure if they knew Bachmann was also making one or not. My club is an example of a cross section of N Scale modelers. Some are rivet counters and want all the details to be correct or they won't buy the engines or cars (or if they have bought it, they will never run it until they have corrected all the deficiencies). Others just want models of the trains they like, whether they existed or not. Most club members are in the second group.

I, myself, would love to see more workhorse engines and less glamour engines. Fill a layout with normal, everyday, black steam engines (or generic diesels) with an occasional iconic engine pulling in. That would represent the real world more accurately. Pennsy did not fill their yards with GG1s, why should we?

[brill27mcb]

This.

'Course I also forgot that other ubiquitous electric icon of the PRR electrified territory...the MP54 MU cars.  That's never going to happen in N.

...and with MP54's you'd want to buy a train's worth, too, which would improve sales. It gets my vote.

Rich K.

[draskouasshat]

Recommend starting a company called 'Super Chief" then, LOL.   

I recommend you look at their ho listings......... how many santa fe engines have they produced?

[Dave V]

I recommend you look at their ho listings......... how many santa fe engines have they produced?

Haven't looked...completely off my radar.

[draskouasshat]

Haven't looked...completely off my radar.

Actually, you don't need to look. Im sure you've seen BLIs santa fe 3800 class 2-10-2, 4-8-4, and i believe they're also doing a road specific 2-8-0 or something like that. Needless to say,  they're not just a pennsy manufacturer.
On another note,  is there a problem with someone criticizing a companies choices in the models they produce?

[nkalanaga]

CJM413:  A MILW GG-1 looks silly, and one in GN paint wouldn't look much better, but the GN COULD have run it.  The electrical systems were the same, and the GN did test the E2b.  It worked, but wasn't practical, because, like most PRR electrics, it was designed for speed on relatively flat track.  The GN needed tractive effort on grades and curves, where speed wasn't an issue.

The Y-1/FF2 had the same problem on the PRR.  It was too slow, too heavy, and too wide, so spent its short time there in helper service east of Harrisburg.

For what it's worth, the MILW could have used the GN's electrics, even though they were AC, and the MILW used DC.  All they would have had to do was change the motor-generator sets and they'd have had excellent motors for the Cascades and Rockies.

[chicken45]

Someone ought to do this Jezebel of a loco:




The Pennsylvania Railroad's class FF1 was an American electric locomotive, a prototype numbered #3931 and nicknamed "Big Liz". It was built in 1917 to haul freight trains across the Allegheny Mountains where the PRR planned to electrify. "Big Liz" proved workable but too powerful for the freight cars of the time with its 4600 available horsepower and astonishing 140,000 lbf (620 kN) of tractive effort. Pulling the train it regularly snapped couplers and when moved to the rear as a pusher its force was sufficient to pop cars in the middle of the train off the tracks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_Railroad_class_FF1

[Dave V]

Actually, you don't need to look. Im sure you've seen BLIs santa fe 3800 class 2-10-2, 4-8-4, and i believe they're also doing a road specific 2-8-0 or something like that. Needless to say,  they're not just a pennsy manufacturer.
On another note,  is there a problem with someone criticizing a companies choices in the models they produce?

Of course my suggestion to start your own AT&SF-specific company was offered purely tongue-in-cheek.

While no, I haven't paid one moment of attention to anything BLI has done that doesn't have a keystone on it, I actually do have a spot in my heart for the Santa Fe thanks to a trip to Arizona with my family back in 1979.  When we moved to Colorado Springs from the Florida Panhandle I made sure our route took us over Raton Pass, and while the tracks are silent today (save for Amtrak) that's some seriously hawt railroading right there.

[Dave V]

The Y-1/FF2 had the same problem on the PRR.  It was too slow, too heavy, and too wide, so spent its short time there in helper service east of Harrisburg.

The service life of the FF2 on the Pennsy was very short...2 years?  The aforementioned slow gearing meant that they were mostly incompatible even with the re-geared freight GG1s and were known to spin themselves out of their own tires when "goosed" by a PRR engineer more accustomed to the responsiveness of a GG1.  In fact there's a picture in my Pennsy Electric Years book by Bill Volkmar of an FF2 which spun out of its tires and actually melted down the railhead into 12 perfect wheel-shaped divots.

The FF2s were brought in to replace the L1s 2-8-2 helpers out of Thorndale on the main and on the P&T low-grade line.

[coosvalley]

I wonder if their pre-orders will be good enough to actually move forward with this loco. I can't imagine the BLI will be better than Katos. And given BLI's slow-to-market approach, I bet by then we'll have seen the Kato model re-released with sound, probably more than once....I didn't understand their release of yet another PA, and somehow I understand this choice even less

[Dave V]

I wonder if their pre-orders will be good enough to actually move forward with this loco. I can't imagine the BLI will be better than Katos. And given BLI's slow-to-market approach, I bet by then we'll have seen the Kato model re-released with sound, probably more than once....I didn't understand their release of yet another PA, and somehow I understand this choice even less

Having now owned both steam and diesels from BLI I have to say I find it unlikely their GG1 will outperform the Kato.  I'm not a huge fan of the high startup voltage for the BLI decoder.  I've fiddled with CVs and made it somewhat better, but that plus the extra wide wheel treads in my BLI stuff really makes me wonder if it's possible they can even match Kato let alone beat it.  The Kato G is quite the machine.