Best Of The TP56/TP70 Kitbash thread N scale

[randgust]

I've run mine on both straight DC and off a square-wave walkaround transistor throttle for years; no heat problems unless I was involving a resistor.  But you really have to get that starting voltage way down there.   I also put a rheostat on the voltage supply of the throttles to knock it way down; I put it down to the absolute minimum it will still work for these little motors.  They not only don't run well on a higher-voltage transistor supply and get hot, they vibrate like crazy causing buzzing and noise.

[narrowminded]

Ahhh, yes.  I'm on vacation and using a phone screen.  At this size I just saw some "stuff" on top not distinguishable as anything specific.  It still seems like pretty reasonable performance especially for such a tall gear ratio.

[Philip H]

@u18b that doeasmlook pretty good.

At some put before this gets too far along I'd appreciate someone doing a table (with links) of the different truck and motor combinations as well as the DCC decoders. I'm too lazy to go back through and see what everyone is using.

[up1950s]

I've run mine on both straight DC and off a square-wave walkaround transistor throttle for years; no heat problems unless I was involving a resistor.  But you really have to get that starting voltage way down there.   I also put a rheostat on the voltage supply of the throttles to knock it way down; I put it down to the absolute minimum it will still work for these little motors.  They not only don't run well on a higher-voltage transistor supply and get hot, they vibrate like crazy causing buzzing and noise.

Sex toy motor ? You can take a motor out of a sex toy , but it is hard wired to do what sex toys do .

[peteski]

Ron,
Forget the universals - use a rubber (Tygon, or whatever it is called) tubing to closely couple the motor to the worm shaft. I also like the idea (mentioned already) of partially pushing the worm shaft out of the worm and then inserting the motor shaft into the worm opening. That way the motor shaft is perfectly aligned with the worm.

[Philip H]

Ron,
Forget the universals - use a rubber (Tygon, or whatever it is called) tubing to closely couple the motor to the worm shaft. I also like the idea (mentioned already) of partially pushing the worm shaft out of the worm and then inserting the motor shaft into the worm opening. That way the motor shaft is perfectly aligned with the worm.

so for the mechanically-semi-initiated:  If the motor shaft is long enough why not just push the worm gear in to it entirely and get rid of the universal/tubing joint?

[randgust]

The Kato 11-105 motor has a short shaft - just long enough for the universal and not long enough for a worm mount.   I'm not sure of the shaft diameter on the Kato HT-C truck; you 'might' be able to splice everything together through the worm so that another piece of shaft would go through and be supported on the far end of the worm on the existing bearing (and pull off the inner one).

The only time I tried that (direct worm mount with a shaft spice in the worm) on a pager motor it was on the aborted 25-tonner repower with a horizontal drive, got it to work but man, it was a bear getting that worm on that shaft precisely - any bend at all in the alignment and it was translated to a hiccup when running.   I do have the worm mounted directly on the motor shaft on my first 25-tonner mechanism with the vertical mount, and those motor bearings really aren't up to that kind of load, although it works.

Oh, as for mine:

Truck:  1970's Roco E-7 truck (New old stock from Ebay) with HT-C sideframes from Cutting Edge Scale Models
Motor:  Kato 11-105
Gearhead:  Gizmoszone 5.14:1  with 3v. motor swapped out for Kato
DCC:  None

The 'good news' is that at one time that 12v Kato motor case design was unique, now I'm seeing it popping up all over the place.  You're seeing that case width elongated for a variety of models like the Micro-Ace/Atlas 4-4-0, the Bachmann 44/70 tonner, and a much longer case but same  width dimensions for the third run Atlas Shay.   If I can get a gearhead in there, a direct-drive worm on a longer shaft is possible on one of these longer-shaft small motor alternatives, if you can find the motor.

Also FWIW I bought one of the Mashima gearheads that Max had produced - beautiful and beefy motor but in head-to-head tests on the same tender drive for an Atlas 2-6-0, the Kato+Gizmoszone combo ran smoother and better, which I most certainly did not expect.

[u18b]

As has been pointed out, the motor shafts on the Kato motor is VERY short.

Not sure if the splicing idea will work.   I'll do some measuring when I can.

And by the way,  shaft diameter is an issue here.

Typical motor shafts and worm shafts from Kato/Atlas/Wathers/Life Like etc tend to use 1.5mm shafts.

But the Kato SD40-2 mid worm shaft is 1mm, so much smaller.

Also, the Kato 11-105 pager motor has a 1mm shaft.

I have placed an order for the two motors I referenced above.  But alas- they are coming from Asia, so another 4 week wait.
But these have longer 1mm shafts.

By the way, I also have some TINY TINY motors I picked up from a hobby shop the does RC stuff.  These came from helicopters.
Unfortunately, the one I like the best has a  .7mm shaft.  Even smaller!

[peteski]

If the motor shaft and worm shaft are different diameter, why not sleeve the motor shaft to insert it in the worm?

BTW, a Kato critter (I'm pretty sure it was Kato 11-105 chassis) was entered into the auction at the NSE convention and after multiple bids, it sold for $50!  Usually, bidders look either for bargains or collectible items. Why pay $50 for an item which is readily available for much less? 

[wazzou]

Why pay $50 for an item which is readily available for much less? 

Auction euphoria.

[narrowminded]

I know a guy that can make those sleeves if needed. 

One thing I've learned in my ventures is that any motor I've seen with a .7mm or less shaft will require a pretty tall gear and very low friction mechanism if it's to have any chance of being useable.  75:1 seems to be the minimum and that will also be pretty fast at 70 MPH or better top speed.  Much lower gear or any friction to speak of and it doesn't have the oomph to pull it.  Also, they will be 3 volt or less.  They don't have the room or small enough wire to wind them for 12v even as a special.  It becomes physically impossible.  I have a few other tricks for getting sleeves to fit too but won't try to type that out on this tinker toy.

[u18b]

BTW, a Kato critter (I'm pretty sure it was Kato 11-105 chassis) was entered into the auction at the NSE convention and after multiple bids, it sold for $50!  Usually, bidders look either for bargains or collectible items. Why pay $50 for an item which is readily available for much less? 

I buy mine from Japan for about 18 with free shipping.

[randgust]

Also, they will be 3 volt or less.  They don't have the room or small enough wire to wind them for 12v even as a special.  It becomes physically impossible.

Several years ago I got a batch of Motorola pager motors off of Ebay - with the vibrating metal cam still on them - that were rated as 9v. Dirt cheap and super tiny.  That's what I tried to use on the 25-tonner truck, direct DC.   .7mm shaft, sleeved it up, mounted a worm on it that was about as big around as the motor.   Didn't matter, still didn't have any torque.    But I've never seen 9V pager motors since, seemed to be NOS from somebody and Motorola is no more, so I assumed they were production oddballs.

After that I kinda gave up on them, but if somebody else wants to take a shot using one, hey, PM me.

[mmagliaro]

As has been pointed out, the motor shafts on the Kato motor is VERY short.

Not sure if the splicing idea will work.   I'll do some measuring when I can.

And by the way,  shaft diameter is an issue here.

Typical motor shafts and worm shafts from Kato/Atlas/Wathers/Life Like etc tend to use 1.5mm shafts.

But the Kato SD40-2 mid worm shaft is 1mm, so much smaller.

Also, the Kato 11-105 pager motor has a 1mm shaft.

I have placed an order for the two motors I referenced above.  But alas- they are coming from Asia, so another 4 week wait.
But these have longer 1mm shafts.

By the way, I also have some TINY TINY motors I picked up from a hobby shop the does RC stuff.  These came from helicopters.
Unfortunately, the one I like the best has a  .7mm shaft.  Even smaller!

So the worm is only bored out to 1mm, which limits your choice of motors because a lot of motors have 1.5mm shafts?
Am I understanding you correctly?

Well, there is a way around this.
Brass worm, 2.8mm outside diameter, bored for 1.5mm:
https://shop.kkpmo.com/product_info.php?info=p802_wormgear-m0-2---2-8mm.html



 

[peteski]

I think Ron was saying that the standard Kato motors and worm shafts are all 1.5 mm while the small Kato critter motor has a 1mm shaft.