Need help- Hiawatha EP2 Bipolar Experimental

[u18b]

I'm in the process of making a Milwaukee Road EP2 Bipolar in N scale.
I'll be painting it as E1 in the first experimental Hiawatha scheme.

The problem is..... I can find almost no photos.
I have researched and researched- yes, for hours-- with as many search term variations as I can think of..... and keep coming up dry.

To date, I have only found four photos.

First, this shot from Noel Holley's great book is almost useless.   You can't see anything other than this is the loco we want.




This shot is a little helpful.  It is color, and that helps.  But it is VERY fuzzy.




This is a pretty famous photo.   This is about the only shot you can easily see on the net.  And it is very clear.  Very helpful.




And I recently came across this image which was a bit helpful for research purposes.
For example, this shot shows that the grab irons are black- something I might have missed.




Now, I know, these are better than nothing.  But notice that the three better shots are ALL of the right side.  I have no shots of the left side.

Further, in none of these shots can I discern a horn.
And my gut tells me it just has to have one (on the left side?).
The old steam whistle is gone,  but I just can't see a horn anywhere.  Surely the RR would not have run these without a whistle or a horn?!

Does anyone else have any other shots to help me with research?

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

[sirenwerks]

The second shot, the fuzzy color one, did you scan that out of Milwaukee Road In Color V 5?

[u18b]

That may be where it is from, I don't know.   But I found it on the net.

I have 6 Milw books, and Noel Holley's is the only one that has a shot of this loco.

[sirenwerks]

I scanned the image at 1200 dpi. Not sure that it's any better, but hopefully it will help. I thumbed through the other Milwaukee Road books I had and nada. I am going to the Portland Historical Society next week and, while I doubt they'll have anything since Portland ain't Seattle, I will ask.

[Missaberoad]

Dug through my Milwaukee collection and didn't find any new photos either.

Wish I could have helped, excited to see this one...

[nscaler711]

I scanned the image at 1200 dpi. Not sure that it's any better, but hopefully it will help. I thumbed through the other Milwaukee Road books I had and nada. I am going to the Portland Historical Society next week and, while I doubt they'll have anything since Portland ain't Seattle, I will ask.

I bet if some one could find that locomotive behind E1, that may help with color matching as well, it looks to have the same colors used on E1
Tbh it looks like a Shark but im not positive... or its an E/F unit and i am losing my mind.


What about a model?


Also it may use the same paint on their 4-6-2s that pulled the Hiawatha as well (perhaps Olympian? Im not a Milwaukee Road guy...)

[Missaberoad]

I bet if some one could find that locomotive behind E1, that may help with color matching as well, it looks to have the same colors used on E1
Tbh it looks like a Shark but im not positive... or its an E/F unit and i am losing my mind.

Erie built... looks like 21-b

Here's a siser unit in the same paint scheme.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1928558
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/141183038544-0-1/s-l1000.jpg

[u18b]

What about a model?

Yes, I have lots of photos of models.   And they are a very very tentative back up.

But there are huge problems and pitfalls.
Take that model there.  It is not just wrong, but terribly wrong.   The silver strip should come all the way across the top and through the headlight area and then bend down on the nose.

You would think that a company that makes very expensive brass locos would do something accurate-- but maybe this just shows how limited the info is on this loco.

[u18b]

I scanned the image at 1200 dpi. Not sure that it's any better, but hopefully it will help. I thumbed through the other Milwaukee Road books I had and nada. I am going to the Portland Historical Society next week and, while I doubt they'll have anything since Portland ain't Seattle, I will ask.

Thank you.  Your scan was helpful.

Actually, the fuzzy shot came from me, I remembered.   That same photo is in Milwaukee Road Bi-polar Electrics:  Classic Power 2.   But in that book, it is a small photo.  SO when scanned, you don't get much.    Your photo out of a better quality book is obviously better.

Thank you.

BTW- this photo is also helpful as someone says because you can see the color matching to the FM Erie built behind it.

This photo is also crucial to see that the lettering is NOT orange (as it is painted on that model).  It is gold leaf.

[sirenwerks]

Thank you.  Your scan was helpful.

Actually, the fuzzy shot came from me, I remembered.   That same photo is in Milwaukee Road Bi-polar Electrics:  Classic Power 2.   But in that book, it is a small photo.  SO when scanned, you don't get much.    Your photo out of a better quality book is obviously better.

Thank you.

BTW- this photo is also helpful as someone says because you can see the color matching to the FM Erie built behind it.

This photo is also crucial to see that the lettering is NOT orange (as it is painted on that model).  It is gold leaf.

Does my help win me a free Armor yellow version when you get around to those? A boy can hope...

[wcfn100]

So what's on top of the headlamp? it's not there in later pictures,  Is it possible that it's an electric horn?  The Milwaukee did do this on other later locomotives (or was that the bell?).

This pictures lets you see whatever it is more clearly.

http://www.american-rails.com/images/Bonner71758.jpg

Probably way off, but it's been bugging me.


Jason

[Missaberoad]

The Milwaukee did do this on other later locomotives (or was that the bell?).

It was the bell that was electric on later Milwaukee locomotives.

They used two different versions both made by Prime mfg. use seems somewhat inconsistent tho with a number of units delivered with E-bells being retrofit with mechanical bells.

[wcfn100]

Following up with that thought process, a couple different searches on Google suggest that the early electrics may have had a whistle.


Jason

[nkalanaga]

According to Noel Holley, they were delivered with "shrill, high-pitched" whistles, which I have heard described as "European peanut whistles".  Very different from the sound of other MILW motors, whatever kind of whistles or air horns THEY may have had. 

[u18b]

So what's on top of the headlamp? it's not there in later pictures,  Is it possible that it's an electric horn?  The Milwaukee did do this on other later locomotives (or was that the bell?).

This pictures lets you see whatever it is more clearly.

http://www.american-rails.com/images/Bonner71758.jpg

Probably way off, but it's been bugging me.

Jason

Not sure what the bump is on top of the headlamp....

But in that same shot..... the steam whistle is hidden under that hump thing right behind the bell.

You will not find that hump on any loco that is not black-- in other words, when they went to the Hiawatha schemes, they dumped the whistle and moved to a horn.