At a Crossroads

[conrail98]

What about a modified Beer Line layout? Doesn't have to be the same plan but the sectionals could give you "shelf" or round continuous running,

Phil

[coosvalley]

As far as changing scales, I say go for it, if you're unhappy with n scale sound, it is a logical step.

But beyond a scale change, what else are you looking to accomplish?..If you envision long fast manifests, but only have room for a switching pike, then I bet you'll be unhappy again soon...So my advice is to refine your ideas, and decide what you want to model before spending $ on more things that you may end up not needing..Pick a prototype, or freelance, draw up some plans....Get an idea of what you're trying to accomplish beyond a loco that sounds good, and if you think you'll be able to actually model it to your satisfaction.

I also advise looking at your favorite pics of your layout, and then some pics of your favorite layouts, and see what the difference is, and what it will take for you to acheive those results you'd prefer.

I recall you abandoning the second section of the HCD layout so you could focus on a more manageable single door, but anything in HO will have to be double the size, are you sure you won't feel overwhelmed again?

Anywho, food for thought, and good luck!

[tehachapifan]

Mark, doesn't the direction depending on if we are the rail fan or engineer? If we are watching trains, then sounds should come from them, but if we are the operator in the engine, wouldn't the noise best be captured by surrounding you and blocking out other noises?

This does seem to be an area where opinions vary quite a bit, where a poll might even be worthwhile. I personally can't imagine ever wanting it to sound like I'm inside the loco as I'm viewing it from several hundred scale feet away, but I know this opinion is not shared by everyone. I wound also much prefer the recordings for sound files to be taken from trackside rather than from inside the loco somewhere for the same basic reason.

[mark dance]

Mark, doesn't the direction depending on if we are the rail fan or engineer? If we are watching trains, then sounds should come from them, but if we are the operator in the engine, wouldn't the noise best be captured by surrounding you and blocking out other noises?

That's what I thought...I wanted to hear sound like the engineer.  What could be better for a small 4 axle N scale switcher on an isolated branch.

But I believe if we want to be the engineer, and hear what the engineer hears in a synchronized experience, then we would need feel like we are inside the cab as well.  It is the disconnect of seeing like a railfan and hearing like an engineer that seems to be the root cause of it becoming an annoying gimmick after a while...at least to me and those who have used it on my layout.  And it is a high quality sound set up.  It's not the sound it is the dissonant experience.

md

md

[davefoxx]

So at what point do you trade your soul to the devil to master the blues? 

Go with whatever makes you happy. If at some point you decide to change again or even switch back to N then this will still be time well spent.

Only one thought to consider, it seems to me you get alot of joy from mainline running... Will you be able to achieve this in HO and if not will you be happy with a switching pike?

As far as I know there is no N scale modeler named Dave here anymore! seem to remember a few but they must have disappeared  

I do get enjoyment from mainline running, and I am a roundy-round guy.  But, I tore down the expansion to the Seaboard Central over one year ago, relegating myself to a HCD layout again.  I survived.  No more intermodal with 89' cars, but that's okay.  I enjoyed ten car or less length trains.  Again, I think I can scratch that intermodal and mainline running itch on my friends' layouts.  As for a passenger train, heck, an F40PH and three or four Amtoobs, and I'm good.

If I'm wrong, I'll try again.  I'm certainly not declaring this as the final layout that I'll ever build.  It's been a long time since I planned an HO layout.  I'm not even familiar with the track offered in HO anymore. So, who knows?  Perhaps some day will bring a new house, like Dave Vollmer's, with clean, finished space.  Then, well, the sky's the limit.

DFF

[davefoxx]

What about a modified Beer Line layout? Doesn't have to be the same plan but the sectionals could give you "shelf" or round continuous running,

Phil

Yes, you've got the idea.

DFF

[davefoxx]

As far as changing scales, I say go for it, if you're unhappy with n scale sound, it is a logical step.

But beyond a scale change, what else are you looking to accomplish?..If you envision long fast manifests, but only have room for a switching pike, then I bet you'll be unhappy again soon...So my advice is to refine your ideas, and decide what you want to model before spending $ on more things that you may end up not needing..Pick a prototype, or freelance, draw up some plans....Get an idea of what you're trying to accomplish beyond a loco that sounds good, and if you think you'll be able to actually model it to your satisfaction.

As I pointed out in my last post or two, I don't envision long fast manifests.  I know I would have to build a room sized layout to do that, and I just don't have the time or the money to do so right now.  So, I want to build a small HO layout that allows for a branchline-type theme.  There were tons of those in the Carolinas, and, apparently, Intermountain even offers U18Bs in HO scale.  Perfect for the Seaboard System!  I just need to pick the area I want to model.  I'm intrigued by the waterfront motif of the Rice Harbor.  It's not unlike the Kitty Hawk Central which, coincidentally was connected to MR's original Seaboard Central layout.  I do love the Outer Banks of North Carolina!

I also advise looking at your favorite pics of your layout, and then some pics of your favorite layouts, and see what the difference is, and what it will take for you to acheive those results you'd prefer.

Good idea.

I recall you abandoning the second section of the HCD layout so you could focus on a more manageable single door, but anything in HO will have to be double the size, are you sure you won't feel overwhelmed again?

Well, the layout may be larger, but, if you think about it, because of the increased scale, it will be less turnouts, less wiring, less ballasting per scale foot of track, less structures, and less trees!    I think I'll be fine.  I built 6' x 10' layouts in HO scale in my teenage years, so I know what I'm getting into.

Anywho, food for thought, and good luck!

And I very much appreciate it.  From all of you.

DFF

[davefoxx]

Here's another layout that I have long admired:



I like this plan, because it's reasonably compact for my layout space and has lots of switching possibilities, including the small yard with a wye and a good number of industries.



DFF

[Chris333]

I don't think you will build it 

[OldEastRR]

for the average given space for a home layout it seems like it goes
If you want heft, big sound, and lots of detail, go O.
If you want many RTR products to choose from, go HO.
If you want long trains and big scenery, go N.
O and N also means more scratchbuilding and kitbashing.
Switching is satisfactory in all three scales - just the larger the scale, the less space for rolling stock and track involved for it.

[Point353]

That's what I thought...I wanted to hear sound like the engineer.  What could be better for a small 4 axle N scale switcher on an isolated branch.

But I believe if we want to be the engineer, and hear what the engineer hears in a synchronized experience, then we would need feel like we are inside the cab as well.  It is the disconnect of seeing like a railfan and hearing like an engineer that seems to be the root cause of it becoming an annoying gimmick after a while...at least to me and those who have used it on my layout.  And it is a high quality sound set up.  It's not the sound it is the dissonant experience.

If you prefer the "inside the cab" experience, that can be achieved with a camera in the loco and operating from the view on a monitor (and sound from speakers).
But, then, you might just as well be running a computer train simulator program and questioning the need for an actual layout. 

[Point353]

As I pointed out in my last post or two, I don't envision long fast manifests.  I know I would have to build a room sized layout to do that, and I just don't have the time or the money to do so right now.

It is possible to have it both ways.
How often, when you are trackside, can you see the entire train at once?
Depending upon the length of the train and its speed, it may take a full minute or more to pass by your location.
Build a layout that focuses on one small town or scene - a single layout design element in track planning speak.
Put a helix at either end of that scene connecting to a lower level staging yard.
The helices and staging yard can absorb the full length of the trains as you watch them pass through the scene you have modeled.

[LIRR]

Moving to HO and going off the bat to DCC/sound has reinvigorated my involvement in the hobby. There are pros and cons to every scale. The relative mass of HO to N (especially viewed eye level such as I set my shelf to do from a seated position) is a big driver for me. I am very happy overall with my HO shelf layout, I can't imagine building a sizeable n layout anymore, dabbling with some modules is enough for me. Now On30 is a whole different ball game and I want to build a small layout as well in that scale.
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Same here, the switch to HO has really jump started my enthusiasm. I also like the mass of HO, I briefly contemplated O scale. If I had started over in N I wouldn't have switched to DCC and sound. I had no desire to add decoders to 32 locomotives.

[crrcoal]

I think you made a good choice Dave. I switched over to HO a few years ago but have kept all my N scale equipment. It is safely stored away for either the day I decide to build another N scale layout or to pass on down to.....

I agree that sound just isn't there yet in N scale (unless you are a Mr Columbo - his NKP is AMAZING). Sound in HO is making great strides and LOKs Full throttle is pretty incredible. The one thing I hate with sound or rather two things; the bell and the horn. Unless its the 1:1, the bell and horn quickly erode my nerves for some reason. The prime mover sounds are where its at at least for me.

I don't have the space for continuous running so I had to build a small switching layout. It has a yard, engine servicing facility, some industries, mainline and branch line. It was influenced by John Smolczynski's layout. But where his layout is 10' long and straight mine is 9'x7' L shape. I will be running both CNJ and LV equipment. What's neat though is the way it is all set up, I could make this a coal mine switching operation very easily if that desire should rear it's head. I love coal!!

So while I still love N scale, I had to make the jump to HO for size of equipment and sound primarily. I'm looking forward to your HO layout coming to life.

[davefoxx]

The prime mover sounds are where its at at least for me.

^This!  I have to admit that I really like just listening to a Geep sitting there in idle.  Reminds me of my time in Richmond, Virginia when I'd hang out by Bryan Park Terminal on the RF&P where the locomotives were burbling while awaiting service or their next assignment.

Soooooooooo, think of the space and money I can save by just building a diorama of an engine facility and never move my motive power. 

Thanks,
DFF