Walther's is at it again

[tom mann]

I like the idea of N scale buildings on a Z scale layout.  It's a much better fit, if you overlook the small things like brick size/door size/etc.

[thomasjmdavis]

But nobody makes anything close to the big 1900's-era factories that were being built everywhere up until the Crash of '29. The factories at such places like the Central Manufacturing District in Chicago:

This is true, but nobody makes those in HO either, some of the larger industrial buildings would be bigger than some layouts.  I scrolled around that Google and found the area where my company used to be located in what was a VERY small building, only 5000 square feet- but still, that is almost 4x8 inches in N scale- the footprint of some of the "larger" Walthers and DPM buildings.

From my point of view, one of the major mistakes made by everyone that makes modular components is that they don't offer large quantity packs- although in some sense, the Walthers 3 in 1 buildings, or the Dairy, were that, or the DPM Woods Furniture kit. 

Here is my old business area.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8866078,-87.6701841,193a,35y,39.42t/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en
 As I said, the smaller buildings there are about 5000 square foot footprints. That is the CNW line running through the middle of the map. Now, what is that bridge for?  Old CTA?  Or maybe carried electric lines over the tracks (building just south and east is - or at least was- a major electrical substation).  I don't remember any signals on it.  In the photos, it doesn't look heavy enough to be a railroad bridge, but on the other hand, might have been out of use since the 19th Century.  Still, if you happen to have an old bridge laying around- there's your prototype.

[coosvalley]

From my point of view, one of the major mistakes made by everyone that makes modular components is that they don't offer large quantity packs- although in some sense, the Walthers 3 in 1 buildings, or the Dairy, were that, or the DPM Woods Furniture kit. 

The Walthers modulars had some scale issues, (brick size, floor height)which made me avoid them. I like the DPM modulars, but I really wish they had given us the same window style options they gave to the HO guys..If they had, DPM modulars would probably be more popular in N scale..Maybe Woodland Scenics will complete the line someday..

N scale has plenty of small and mid sized buildings, we need more large industries!

[Spades]

They didn't exactly fly together but I wish someone would release the the Nu-Line warehouses kits  1 & 2

[OldEastRR]

Now, what is that bridge for?  Old CTA?  Or maybe carried electric lines over the tracks (building just south and east is - or at least was- a major electrical substation).  I don't remember any signals on it.  In the photos, it doesn't look heavy enough to be a railroad bridge, but on the other hand, might have been out of use since the 19th Century.  Still, if you happen to have an old bridge laying around- there's your prototype.

It's too big for an electrical conduits only, too wide for pedestrian, too tall for vehicles. I'd guess it was an old El bridge, but connecting which line to what? The end has tall portals, the stringer girders are spaced for double track .... intriguing. But it obviously was built after the CNW put all that track there. Following the supposed ROW north there are either narrow lots or narrow (I suspect newer) buildings all the way to Grand Ave, which is wide enough for me to suppose it had centerline  streetcar running. Plus the SE corner of the intersection of the supposed ROW and Grand is all open area -- enough for a sharp EL curve and then a descent to ground level on Grand. So maybe it was a streetcar company that went out of business.
As for the supposed route south of the bridge, you're free to look. But there is a EL line going N-S if you go far enough, and it lines up with the bridge. It curves to join another E-W line.
Curious as to why it hasn't been torn down for scrap. Too much disruption for the tracks below?

[thomasjmdavis]

Old East,

Have confirmed that it is indeed an El bridge.  There is still a "Paulina connector" (Paulina being the N-S street just east of the bridge) that runs south from the Lake St El line to the Congress St (Eisenhower Expressway) line. North of Lake St has been demolished, but it ran all the way to Milwaukee Ave, where there is an El line that runs northwest.  The line north of Lake was not abandoned until 1964.

Service Notes:

Date of Opening:.1895
Dates of Abandonment and Reactivation:..

1951 (Evergreen to Congress, enters nonrevenue service)

1954 (Lake to Congress, reactivated for revenue service)

1958 (Lake to Congress, resumes nonrevenue service)

1964 (Evergreen to Lake, abandoned)

    2006 (Lake to Congress, reactivated for revenue service)
Length of Route: 2.2 miles (approx., Evergreen to Congress), 0.75 miles (approx., Lake to Congress)
Number of Stations: 5 stations (all demolished)

More info for those interested: http://www.chicago-l.org/operations/lines/paulina.html  (if that does not work due to the https thing, look up Chicago-L dot org and search the site for Paulina)

I would think your speculation is correct.  Demolition of that bridge would have disrupted operation of the CNW main line to such an extent that it was worth whatever maintenance is required to keep the bridge in the air to avoid shutting down CNW.  And perhaps they have some use for it for signals or ?

[Philip H]

Somewhat back to our original thread topic  there's stuff like this (which i don't recall being announced):

https://trainlife.myshopify.com/products/n-scale-modern-brick-santa-fe-station-kit?utm_campaign=2017.4.9+New+on+TrainLife.com+All+%28JHAjLA%29&utm_medium=email&_ke=a2NzcGhpbDFAZ21haWwuY29t&utm_source=Everbody

Its a neat little modern station structure . . . . but still . . . .

[thomasjmdavis]

Here is the model on Walthers site, same model number as in the Trainlife ad (933-4064)- it's HO, according to Walthers:
https://www.walthers.com/modern-brick-santa-fe-station-kit?ref=1

edit- clicked on the "instructions" button on the Trainlife ad, which brings up HO instructions.  I think they put it in the wrong scale category on their site.

[Philip H]

Here is the model on Walthers site, same model number as in the Trainlife ad (933-4064)- it's HO, according to Walthers:
https://www.walthers.com/modern-brick-santa-fe-station-kit?ref=1

edit- clicked on the "instructions" button on the Trainlife ad, which brings up HO instructions.  I think they put it in the wrong scale category on their site.

Sorta ironically proves my point . . . .

[thomasjmdavis]

It does make one wonder about how they do their market research... how many ATSF modelers in N scale might have bought it versus some of the other things they have decided to produce.

[coosvalley]

It does make one wonder about how they do their market research... how many ATSF modelers in N scale might have bought it versus some of the other things they have decided to produce.

Or, decided not to produce 

[OldEastRR]

Another kick to N scalers is the new line of pre-built models from Menard's.... yes, that Menards, the big box hardware/lumber chain. I would have to assume somebody way up near the top of management is a real HO enthusiast to have pushed through something like this for a hardware company!!!. Just wish one of those power broker types would be a N scaler for once. Sigh. 

[Rossford Yard]

What gets me about the cold storage model (and this could be true for a bunch of others that have big blank walls- think of the older brick cold storage building) is that it would have been relatively simple to design the model with horizontal seam or molding 20 HO feet off the ground and include 2 sections for the lower 20 feet- 1 section with HO doors, the second with N scale doors.  They could sell 25-33% more kits, and yes, there would be a bit more tooling, but much less than a separate N scale kit.  And last I was aware, a much larger percentage of N scale modelers were in the "modern" era, where HO modelers (with a much wider range of steam) were still mostly "transition" modelers.  Which is to say, N scale sales might add even more that the usual percentage. As a modeler of 1955, I don't need this particular building, but certainly there are a number of older structures this could also apply to.

The same thinking could be applied to things like rolling mill buildings, big warehouse structures, etc. 

As is, it presents an opportunity for aftermarket products- "conversion kits" if you will, but that, of course, drives up the price for the end users in N scale.

I used their HO Petersen Tooling for an N scale warehouse.  That one had a simulated stone bottom, as a separate piece. If you remove that, it brings it down to large for N, but useable.  The doors became the right height, if you added a concrete loading dock in front, but were too wide, which I covered with styrene to look a bit like modern covered doors. 

So, yes, some modern warehouses they could probably design to fit both scales, a bit big for N, a bit small for HO, maybe.  The old Heljan brewery seemed to continually sell.  It would take just a few extra parts, although current market desire for accuracy might reduce sales in HO and N, and face complaints here from those of us who could do simple kit bashes.......I envision they would sell the walls as a kit, and have a separate package for the doors, details, etc. that would be scale specific.

Also, the N scale steel structures were built to kitbash easily, which I appreciated.

[MichaelWinicki]

Another kick to N scalers is the new line of pre-built models from Menard's.... yes, that Menards, the big box hardware/lumber chain. I would have to assume somebody way up near the top of management is a real HO enthusiast to have pushed through something like this for a hardware company!!!. Just wish one of those power broker types would be a N scaler for once. Sigh. 

Yeah, sorry they aren't doing N-scale versions but credit to them for coming out with a product line... Especially being one so far removed from what they're currently doing.

[Nato]

            :|I just don' t want my kids to look like the picture on the box. "Oh that's Kits", "Never mind". Nate Goodman (Nato).