Walther's is at it again

[Rossford Yard]

As to biz side, we have heard on forums that structures in N sell about 25-33% of HO. So, if 1000 structure is break even in N, they wait to see if they sell 3-4K in HO, probably over 2 releases.

And think about it. If they sell those 1000 N structure to wholesalers at 45% retail of $80, it's $45,000, again, after 2 years of developing and 2 years between runs (my guess ). They have to ask if there are easier ways to net $11k per year with their limited resources. .

[chicken45]

One could get all Dr Heiter and buy a bunch of them to join together to make a large DQ and therefore a probable reason to be rail-served.

@tom mann the downside is they could only serve chocolate ice cream.

[OldEastRR]

The thing is we need is more N scale buildings at the actual sizes of HO buildings. You CAN buy two+ N kits but not everybody is adept at or has the time for kitbashing them into one building. Nobody else is doing big buildings except some laser-cut places and those are craftsman kits. If Walthers is going to cut new N dies, instead of copying an HO model just make a new huge N building with them. 

[mu26aeh]

The problem is that in order to have HO sized N scale buildings, people have to have the room on their layout to hold said building.  The people who have the layout that is big enough to hold such a building is not great.  Larger buildings in N scale haven't done the best in my view other than the Walthers Paper Mill and Steel series, which given what they are modeling aren't big enough as built.  NuLine had 2 different large concrete warehouses, of course they ended up out of business I believe.  And Walthers at the Consolidated Dairy kit that ended up getting huge discounts to get rid of it if I remember correctly.

Many who choose N scale do it because they don't have the room and want to fit what they can in the given space they have and simply don't have room for these large industries.  Of course, they could resort to doing a switching layout focused on one massive industry, in which everything I said is null and void.  Bring on the massive N scale kits !

[thomasjmdavis]

On questions of size of models, how about if we answer "both/and." I've been at both ends of the spectrum here.  One of the things that got me started in N scale was that I was living in a small 3 room apartment, and even a small HO layout would have been impossible, but I could build one in N to fit over the dresser- just one of those loops with a passing track and a couple sidings.  The one I am planning now will fit a 13x25 space in the basement.  If things go as planned, will include a large passenger terminal and lots of heavy industry, as well as some open spaces.

I really don't care whether Walthers produces the buildings I need, or not.  And I don't care whether they are injection molded kits.  Given the price of new mass market injection molded kits, kits from specialty makers like Lunde and N Scale Architect are very reasonable by comparison, and yield a building that is more individualized and creates more focus on the layout as a result.  If the larger manufacturers have written off N scale, lets support the smaller manufacturers who support us (including the ones that make small buildings).

And I've just discovered the big (11x14) brick sheets from N Scale Architect.  Not a direct replacement for the old H&R sheets, but I think this material and some windows, will produce nice, large buildings for those who need one.

One other point about Walthers and N scale.  Take a look at a couple of their downtown tall buildings.  They have an 11 story HO building that has floors that are hardly 8 scale feet between (11 floors in under 13 inches, but the ground floor is taller than the rest, and it has a cornice).  The real scale on that building is probably about 1/125.  Take down the height of the first floor and cut down some of the cornice, and you are at the size of the N Lunde Chadwick tower (13 stories in 12 inches). The folks who should be complaining are the HO modelers, for us it is just mislabled.  You will find this is true for some of the Euro companies as well- many of their HO high rise buildings are "selectively compressed" in the vertical. 

Tom D

[unittrain]

I have a 14' x 25'  space for my layout it's got some switching but is centered around double track mainline railroading, I chose N because first off now and days N has pretty good detail the models have improved greatly, second I want to model the mainline and surrounding scenery as accurately as possible which often requires large building, bridges ect, I want minimal compression. I can almost make it HO but the curve radius is too tight as I run lots of 80' cars and also the scenes become too over crowded with structures and it kills the realisim of the scene. So in my opinion N scale should see more larger structures than HO as fewer people our using their entire basement for a layout. In my case I need room for my recording studio, a lot more people have a more diverse range of interests that often compete for space unlike 60+ years ago.

[Dave V]

Just use the HO kits as-is and call them "plus-sized models."

[asarge]

The product developers at Walthers do have people in the N scale corner. The issue, as Rossford Yard said, is they have a model, however wrong we think it might be, that it takes X amount of kits sold in HO to make it viable in N.
I know they have gone to the powers that be about it and been shot down time and again. You still have to make a certain amount of profit over and above covering costs. They seem comfortable with doing a couple of kit's a year in N but have no desire to go back and do some of the older HO kits in N and that should tell us they didn't do all that great HO.

I doubt we will see any new freight car or locomotive tooling in the forseeable future, which is ok, but we do need more kits and some of the details they have been doing in HO.

[JoeD]

I think there's some cool components I could use for a bash someplace else.  $60.00 is a big bite though.  I've been in hobbies long enough to remember $20.00 for Monogram 1/48 B29's and the like and even though that was back in the 80's was reasonable for it's size and scope.  The same tooling now sells for $80.00 and I know the cost of plastic and production.  Model railroading is different because of all the finish work to provide ready to run models so the increase in costs can be tracked.  Never understood why something that goes from the machine to a bag to a box and then to my hobby shop would inflate so much...possibly middle men and handling.  Back to the cold storage model...my experience with these Walthers models has been using them as a starting point for customizing...glad to have them, wish they were a bit more affordable.

Joe

[Philip H]

Back to the cold storage model...my experience with these Walthers models has been using them as a starting point for customizing...glad to have them, wish they were a bit more affordable.

Joe

That's sort of my point - us modern modelers could use this whole line as a jumping off point for all sorts of things . . . if it were in N scale.

[thomasjmdavis]

What gets me about the cold storage model (and this could be true for a bunch of others that have big blank walls- think of the older brick cold storage building) is that it would have been relatively simple to design the model with horizontal seam or molding 20 HO feet off the ground and include 2 sections for the lower 20 feet- 1 section with HO doors, the second with N scale doors.  They could sell 25-33% more kits, and yes, there would be a bit more tooling, but much less than a separate N scale kit.  And last I was aware, a much larger percentage of N scale modelers were in the "modern" era, where HO modelers (with a much wider range of steam) were still mostly "transition" modelers.  Which is to say, N scale sales might add even more that the usual percentage. As a modeler of 1955, I don't need this particular building, but certainly there are a number of older structures this could also apply to.

The same thinking could be applied to things like rolling mill buildings, big warehouse structures, etc. 

As is, it presents an opportunity for aftermarket products- "conversion kits" if you will, but that, of course, drives up the price for the end users in N scale.

[James Costello]

Culver's would be cool too:
https://www.walthers.com/culver-s-r-kit

[Nato]

              Yes I too want a "Culver's" now that there are several in my area in Utah. Oh well, I might as well take the eons old Bachmann Hamburger Ready to run and call it good. Oh wait, I forgot I already own one of these complete with an interior with no patrons (figures), A warped base and a loose representation of a 1970's Plymouth parked in front. Nate Goodman (Nato).   

[chicken45]

Just use the HO kits as-is and call them "plus-sized models."

Sometimes it still doesn't matter..like this "N" scale ALTO Tower.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2mrayp31ybjryh2/2013-05-14%2013.46.53.jpg?dl=0

[OldEastRR]

Lunde is good for skyscrapers and NSA for oldy-oldtime small wooden factories. But nobody makes anything close to the big 1900's-era factories that were being built everywhere up until the Crash of '29. The factories at such places like the Central Manufacturing District in Chicago:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8270216,-87.6579883,1108m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en[/url]

and along the NYC's West Side Line in New York. Even people without a lot of space could make a humungous backdrop flat out of one kit. And some of these style buildings are still in use today so they'd work for modern layouts too. If the kits could be used in N city scenes depicting 1890's to the present , how can you lose selling it? You can't use modern buildings on a steam era pike.
The Walthers HO steel mill buildings were perfect for N scale; the N scale versions were shrunk somewhat in comparison. John Colombo has the HO mills on his N layout and they make the trains look toylike, as it looked in real life. If we have an industry shipping out carloads a day, it would be nice to have a building bigger than 4x the size of a boxcar.