PRR X48 car ends paint follow up.

[wcfn100]

I knew some day I'd find the smoking gun on this one and I just got lucky rifling through a stack of old Mainline Modeler magazines.

Mainline Modeler January 2002, page 40.

Black ends.  No question.

I didn't want to bring back the old thread as I'm not trying to relate this to any product because I know other photos had a lot of uncertainty.  I just want to put a pin in this and hope that people will keep a more open mind when discussing these types of things in the future.

Jason

[Point353]

Really difficult to determine that the end is black from this photo:
http://digital.hagley.org/islandora/object/islandora%3A2366410/datastream/OBJ/view

Is that Mainline Modeler photo in color?

[wcfn100]

Really difficult to determine that the end is black from this photo:
http://digital.hagley.org/islandora/object/islandora%3A2366410/datastream/OBJ/view

Right, because that photo is poorly exposed.  Just like this photo.



That CGW car has black ends and a black roof believe it or not (the black roof starts above the rivet line).

The best photo we had at the last discussion was this one.



I can see from that photo the car has black ends, but it's certainly not clear enough to make a definitive case for it.

The MM photo isn't in color, but it is conclusive.


Jason

[bbussey]

Need a color photo to be conclusive for certain, and multiples to show also that it was the norm rather than a one-off. That's what I did to shut down the widespread belief that the New Haven "State of Maine" XIH did not have black ends. ESM would constantly get comments, as even the NHRHTA documented that the prototype had blue ends.

[Lenny53]

Really difficult to determine that the end is black from this photo:
http://digital.hagley.org/islandora/object/islandora%3A2366410/datastream/OBJ/view

Is that Mainline Modeler photo in color?

I'd say boxcar red all the way around.  The tone of the edge of the side ladder is the same as the end of the car.

[Lenny53]

The best photo we had at the last discussion was this one.



Jason

This is a tough call but the shadow under the side ladder indicates the end of the car is not in the same direct light as is the side of the car.  This side edge of the end ladder that faces the same way as the car side does appear to have the same tone as the car side.

[wcfn100]

Need a color photo to be conclusive for certain, and multiples to show also that it was the norm rather than a one-off.

Nah, burden of proof if off me now.  I got my confirmation.  The best evidence says black ends.  If a color photo from February 1954 comes along and shows otherwise, I'll amend my opinion.

I don't like doing this, but I'll call it fair use for research.  If someone makes a beef about it Tom, just delete it.



I'd give my left nut for this type of photo for some of the CGW cars I've tried to research. 

Jason

[Dave V]

Unfortunately, my PRR Color Guides are packed for my move this month.  I'll have to check them when I unpack them.

Years of PRR research has taught me to never say never with Pennsy...but if these were delivered with black ends, they would be the only PRR boxcar class to be so delivered.  And Pennsy was all about standardization.

[wcfn100]

Years of PRR research has taught me to never say never with Pennsy...but if these were delivered with black ends, they would be the only PRR boxcar class to be so delivered.  And Pennsy was all about standardization.

That was an argument that was made last time.  This is more of a Pullman thing where it was very common.  And IIRC, these are the only box cars the PRR bought from Pullman?

And always keep in mind, it's not paint, is car cement.

Jason

[bbussey]

Might be black.  Might not be.  Need color photo of multiple examples from the class to settle definitively, unfortunately, since there are other black & white photos of the class where the ends appear to be the same color as the sides.

[Dave V]

I went through four boxes to find my Color Guide Vol 2.

Here is an X48 in Shadow Keystone 1a, the scheme it was delivered in.  The ends look FCC to me.  But, the caption vindicates you, Jason!

I don't know when Pennsy repainted the ends to appear as in this color photo.  Either way I have no plans to repainted the end of my X48.

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[wcfn100]

Hey, no one mentioned that caption last time.     Thanks for the post Dave.

Jason

[wcfn100]

Need color photo of multiple examples from the class to settle definitively, unfortunately, since there are other black & white photos of the class where the ends appear to be the same color as the sides.

What's surprising is that car diagrams with the paint specs don't exist.  I can even get those for the CGW.

I think the best evidence is for black ends and I'll stick with that until something better comes along.

Jason

[Missaberoad]

but if these were delivered with black ends, they would be the only PRR boxcar class to be so delivered.

As Jason already said it was a PS thing.
Soo line's PS-1's were their only 40' cars with black ends, same idea at Canadian Pacific, the International of Maine cars were the only 40' CP cars with black ends.

The ends also weathered to the point where some color photos require a second take to make sure they are still black. could explain the inconclusiveness of some B&W photos.

Love how that photo in the color guide was referenced in the original discussion but everyone missed the caption.  Not trying to bring anyone down, one of those "the answer was under our noses the entire time" moments.

The MM photo is pretty conclusive to me and even the builders photo shows a distinct sharp color separation along the rivet line a place where shadows would be pretty unobtrusive...

If a color photo from February 1952 comes along and shows otherwise, I'll amend my opinion.

Feb 1954? 

[wcfn100]

Feb 1954? 

Fixed. 

I tried to find that color guide but never could. 

Jason