Author Topic: Building the West Hickory bridge  (Read 14429 times)

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PRRATSF

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Re: Building the West Hickory bridge
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2017, 03:13:09 PM »
+1
 Yeah, The Mystery Bridge, though I never heard of it called that before I came across a picture labeled that, while scrolling through Bing Photos. The line was the connection to the PRR mainline at Tyrone for the Scotia Branch. It accessed sand and iron ore deposits between Tyrone and State College in the early 20th century. At one time it had a connection with the Bellefonte Central, and was originally planned to go all the way to Lewisburg Pa.. though that connection never really happened. I can remember covered hoppers parked on the bridge for unloading when i was a kid, late 60's early 70's. The deck girder approach has a chute between the girders that's still there today.
Sam 

randgust

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Re: Building the West Hickory bridge
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2017, 08:51:14 AM »
+1
OK, here's the shot I wanted you to see.    This is the only shot I've ever seen of this and it's in a local history book that is now well over 35 years since publication.  This supposedly 1925 shot clearly shows the railroad track down the center of the bridge, and the approach on the west end looking east.   As mentioned before, my great uncle was the tolltaker in that building.   
http://www.randgust.com/WHTB2.jpg

That's a bit fuzzy but the blob in the distance is the back end of a Model T headed east, straddling the rail.    The photographer had to be just about standing in the gauge of the PRR north-south main line, and the diamonds would be just out of view to the right.   The ICC val map doesn't show the angle of the crossing, but it's pretty obvious that my guess at 60-degree couldn't be too far off.  Also note the relatively neat and clean appearance of everything, not even much weathering or visible rust on the 1896 bridge steel.   

This is nearly the exact same angle as this view:
http://historicbridges.org/truss/hickory/little_img_0007.jpg

They had aluminum tokens (I have one uncirculated one) that you'll see every once in a while on the auction sites marked 'good for one trip - West Hickory Bridge Co.' 
http://historicbridges.org/truss/hickory/token_large.jpg


I'm not sure how many railroad bridges this long ever were intended as one lane toll vehicle bridges with a full width deck!

What I find intriguing is that although the latticed riveted siderails look old enough to be original equipment, they weren't - that's a two-rail wood one like in my mom's shot and not particularly substantial.   The other thing is that there's no way that bridge was painted aluminum in 1925.   And that deck, well, if you're a lumber company every problem is solved with wood.    And that toll booth, wonderful, it's like a miniature copy of the W&D main office in Endeavor, which still stands today.

My mother worked in West Hickory during WWII at the tannery - this is when PADOT tore off the original deck and track and replaced it with asphalt.  During that period, she said it was only a wooden walkway with rope rails across the river - including during winter.  Scared to death of slipping and falling in the river and she had to walk it twice a day.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 10:17:36 AM by randgust »

Chris333

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Re: Building the West Hickory bridge
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2017, 06:20:06 PM »
+1
Found this at the West Penn site and colored the rail lines.

Chris333

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Re: Building the West Hickory bridge
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2017, 05:30:37 AM »
+1
lol. So I did more searching and forgot who I was dealing with! Everything is from Randy including the ICC map of West Hickory:
http://www.randgust.com/West%20Hickory%20Valmap%20Extract.jpg

Surprised PRR didn't build the bridge to get the traffic or was this before the PRR?

randgust

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Re: Building the West Hickory bridge
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2017, 08:19:24 AM »
+2
Original PRR line up the river was the Oil Creek & Allegheny River RR in 1864.   Wheeler & Dusenbury built the wood Howe truss originally as a wagon bridge at West Hickory, then put 48" rails across it for the Reno RR to the mill at Endeavor.   That may be why the PRR interchange was so awkward, too.   Hickory Valley RR incorporated (and standard gauged) in 1887 as a common carrier, steel bridge replaced Howe truss in 1896, bridge came down in 2006-7.  Tannery started about the same time the railroad did as that's how the hemlock bark was sourced in.

Wheeler was powerful politically, a US congressman.   They had a battle with PRR and the ICC that the railroad was a 'sham' common carrier and not entitled to originating portion of outbound tariff (then a fixed percentage) and was just an industrial private railroad.  Went to a full ICC decision and HVRR won, setting the stage for modern shortlines everywhere.   In 1912 the US Army Corps did a river study, wanted to dam the Hickory Creek watershed and flood his mill, noted that Wheeler was in the US House, and ended up damming the Tionesta Creek instead.  That put one of his competitors out of business and literally underwater.  Coincidence?  Wheeler 2, everybody else 0.

The mill site at Endeavor dates back to a water-powered mill in 1834.  It may be one of the oldest, if not the oldest, continuously operating sawmill site in the US, even though it's had about a dozen different mill structures there now.

Yeah, right off the end of the bridge crossed a PRR main and the passing siding on a diamond, and swung down toward the tannery.  Considering this really was a coal-hauling main line between Pittsburgh and Buffalo and had Pullman service up until the Depression, a shortline driving across it off the end of a bridge is very much unlike the mighty PRR without so much as even a signal.   Other than the shadow of the grade crossing on Rt. 62, there isn't a trace of the railroad(s) in West Hickory or nearly anywhere unless you search for it.   The PRR roadbed shelf along the west bank river is still visible, but not within the town itself.

The PRR line up the river didn't really get cooking until the Bethlehem Steel Lackawanna (Buffalo) plant was built in the early 1920's, then this water-level route out of Pittsburgh was the primary northbound line to bring coal up that way - avoiding major grades nearly the entire way and an early example of directional running.   The other route - via Brockton, Corry, Titusville and into Oil City, was the return route for the empties south and had a significant grade at Sherman, NY.   The river line was telegraph and train order country between Oil City and Irvineton.   So yeah, the little Hickory Valley got to dive across the PRR in a game of 'railroad frogger' from the looks of things until I can prove otherwise.

If you look at the ICC maps, the other feature you'll see is that for the 'end terminal of a railroad' there is just nothing there.   Not even as much as a passing siding or turntable.   The interchange with PRR was a single track parallel to the PRR siding heading north - upriver and upgrade.  How they operated it can only be guessed at, but without a passing siding, I'm thinking there had to be some 'gravity switching' here of some kind rolling cars down off the PRR.  I found evidence of a connecting track between the PRR depot track and the tannery track on a PRR 1950 track chart, so I added that to my model so that it's at least possible to run around a train, but I still can't see how HVRR ever did it.  At heart, it was still just a logging railroad, no cabooses, no passenger cars, just run backwards tender first.   They published an Official Guide 1896 public timetable for service up the valley from West Hickory, but there's still no evidence they ever owned a passenger car.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 09:28:33 AM by randgust »

Lemosteam

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Re: Building the West Hickory bridge
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2017, 08:52:49 AM »
0
Randy are you considering bridge shoes for these spans (they may already be there but hard for me to see).  What type did the prototype have?

randgust

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Re: Building the West Hickory bridge
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2017, 09:11:53 AM »
+1
I did find bearings, and then discovered it was different than what I imagined.

http://historicbridges.org/truss/hickory/little_pict6887.jpg

http://historicbridges.org/truss/hickory/little_pict6894.jpg

http://historicbridges.org/truss/hickory/little_p1010038.jpg

I didn't take those, that's just an example of how much detail was documented prior to destruction.
And even if you love old bridges, you look at it and go....whoa, uh, that doesn't look right.   I'm still intrigued by the mix of both riveted gussets and pins, reminds me of passenger cars with thin steel centerframes and truss rods - same engineering era.   Groton Bridge was Groton, NY not Groton, CT, and they were absorbed into American Bridge Co in 1899, independent again by 1902, and shut down in 1920.   Not many of their bridges left, and West Hickory was one of the longest.

Meanwhile, back at the build.   The biggest modification so far is building the full-width deck.  I tossed the tie strip that comes with the kit and got a chunk of Micro-Engineering bridge flex track with Code 70-rail.    I then cut out ties to match the original pattern of the CV tie strip as they drop down between the main cross stringers.   That worked, and worked well, so if you aren't doing a full deck like I am that's still a great way to put track on this thing.

For me, I put .020 styrene plates of like 14 x 24 feet and goo'd those lightly to the ties - not the stringers - so the whole track deck still lifted out of the truss.  I then put strips of .060 styrene beside the ties so that it was more or less level across the track and I could wood-deck on top of that.   Those got ACC'd rather than cemented to minimize warping.     The wood deck is scribed basswood stripwood that comes in one foot lengths, pre-weathered with Micro-Mark tie stain.  Center is already glued in, side pieces just fit in for the moment.



I'm trying to keep the deck plates removable for cleaning, as with three feet of fragile truss, how I'd ever get in there to clean it is an issue.   I still haven't figured out how to do the railings right.  They are painted white so they will really show.  I'd prefer metal as either wood or plastic is just too subject to breakage, but I haven't seen a two-rail etched plank railing yet except what simulates a thin cross-section more like pipe rather than wood.   (see that historic end shot link)  I need about six feet of the stuff, any ideas?
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 12:01:56 PM by randgust »

pdx1955

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Re: Building the West Hickory bridge
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2017, 05:17:58 PM »
0
Can you make the trusses removable so they lift off the deck for cleaning? I believe the HO kit is built like that so it can lift off - don't know if the N version is. As far as the railing goes, since they are on the inside of the truss, I'd think they would be pretty well protected from breakage. I'd just do the simple thing with a pair of styrene or wood strips glued to each truss on each side with joints between the trusses to accommodate removing the trusses.
Peter

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MichaelWinicki

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Re: Building the West Hickory bridge
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2017, 09:15:36 PM »
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The PRR line up the river didn't really get cooking until the Bethlehem Steel Lackawanna (Buffalo) plant was built in the early 1920's, then this water-level route out of Pittsburgh was the primary northbound line to bring coal up that way - avoiding major grades nearly the entire way and an early example of directional running.   The other route - via Brockton, Corry, Titusville and into Oil City, was the return route for the empties south and had a significant grade at Sherman, NY.   The river line was telegraph and train order country between Oil City and Irvineton.   So yeah, the little Hickory Valley got to dive across the PRR in a game of 'railroad frogger' from the looks of things until I can prove otherwise.

Interesting point about Bethlehem Steel Lackawanna driving up coal traffic on the line. 

The Olean yard added several tracks in 1925, and the thinking is that it was in what they called the Loaded yard (also known as the Northern Classification yard). 

I wonder what happened to that coal traffic... By the mid-fifties, even before the announcement of the Kinzua Dam, I know the traffic on the line was pretty sparse from Oil City to Olean to Buffalo.

randgust

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Re: Building the West Hickory bridge
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2017, 11:29:16 AM »
+1
Can you make the trusses removable so they lift off the deck for cleaning?

Maybe the other kits could do that, but this 1810 puts the vertical beams and the side stringers in one casting.   I sure didn't see how you could do it and keep the whole stringer assembly straight.  And the plastic is flexible enough that you really do need the 'bridge' to keep alignment of the track and stringers.

OK, so after I have this thing structurally solid, I'm going backwards and modifying it.   I did the diagonal bracing for the center panels with .020 wire instead of the supplied thread.  I'm taking out the end vertical lattice beams and replacing those with a pair of suspension rods from the top connection, which REALLY makes a visual difference to make it look older and lighter.  And I put in .050 styrene rod ends all along the bottom beam for pin connections.  The top ones are smaller, I'll use .035 there when I get to it. 

I cut the end beam out with an abrasive disk on medium speed, drilled the stub and top for the wire, threaded it through and ACC'd in place.  It's pretty darn tough, at least in tension.



You can also see I modified the end plate to be full size to support the deck, trimmed the lattice diagonals down to just rods for the top.   I haven't done the bearing plates yet.  What I had for bridge shoes looks nothing like them.

randgust

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Re: Building the West Hickory bridge
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2017, 09:43:06 PM »
+2
Well, today I made some major progress.   Got the approach leveled up with the adapter, which gave me top-of-rail.   Got the Chooch cut-stone abutments cut (only had to take down one stone level from the bottom) and fitted to one end to get the top-of-rail lined up there.  I've got to shim the bridge end up about .030 to make everything work, but not a problem.   

That gave me the elevation for the Chooch cut-stone center piers - got a pair of those.  West Hickory is tapered only on the upstream side, but there's no way I'm ever going to make a better-looking pier than that, good enough.   I cut them with a Zona saw, tough cut, but did cut square and smooth.

And, I glued up the stringers on the second and third span to check (for the first  time) the total span length here to make sure this really is going to fit within the 'triple' T-track dimension length with the abutments and all three spans.  It will.



Here's the first span with the deck set on it.  Other than top pins on the top chord and railings, it's done.



While this really isn't a pin-connected bridge, leaving off the riveted gussets and adding styrene rod 'pins', along with removing the top lattices and the first vertical beam off each end - all that has really backdated it.  I also cut all the lattices off the underneath of the bottom chord so it 'looks like' two parallel beams pinned.    No, it's not historically precise, but this is still one heck of a span.



I was looking for a weathered black spray paint - think Floquil Grimy Black, and found a Rust-Oleum "chalked" charcoal gray/black (#302590) that looked interesting.  I took some of the leftover sprues and lattices from the first span and test-painted them.   Wow, we're on to something.  It didn't craze the plastic, but it bonded phenomenally - won't scratch off.   And it looks exactly what I wanted, a grimy, somewhat chalked black that will take a light weathering and has some grain on it.   I can hardly wait to paint the thing, this is a way cool discovery.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 07:35:54 AM by randgust »

Chris333

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Re: Building the West Hickory bridge
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2017, 10:04:15 PM »
+2
I found a grimey black in cheap spray. I think it was a type of chalkboard paint, dead flat. I will look it up when I get home.

wazzou

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Re: Building the West Hickory bridge
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2017, 11:09:36 PM »
0
Valspar Blindfold from Lowe's is a pretty good Grimy Black.
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Chris333

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Re: Building the West Hickory bridge
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2017, 02:48:00 AM »
+1
My color was Krylon Chalky Finish in anvil gray, probably what Randy has.

OldEastRR

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Re: Building the West Hickory bridge
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2017, 07:40:30 AM »
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There was no tower at the RR junction? Wow. And what's that structure atop the end crossbeam of the bridge?