HOn3 Rio Grande Southern First District 1938-1945

[Dave V]

My train room is definitely taking on a narrow gauge vibe!

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[Dave V]

Now that I'm settled in and have established my workshop, I think it's time to start working in HOn3!

In addition to the Rico depot I'm working on, I have the following projects in the queue:

1)  A PSC kit for a D&RGW/RGS short caboose...to become RGS 0402.
2)  An MRGS D&RGW passenger car destined to be kitbashed into either RGS combine #259 or a work/outfit car
3)  Durango Press RGS Trout Lake water tank...which is pretty much identical to the one in Rico, so that's what I'm going to do with it.
4)  Banta Model Works Ophir Quality Store
5)  Grandt Line East Terrible Mill....  This one's on hold.  I want to model the Rico Pro Patria Mill, but the Banta kit is huge (and almost $500) and I'm not sure the Grandt Line kit is an appropriate starting point.  I may kitbash it or I may use it as the mill at Matterhorn.  TBD
6)  A Bear Creek Models RGS trestle jig and a ton of trestle lumber

Also en route is another MRGS passenger car and a kit for RGS long caboose 0404.  I've stocked up on Microscale decals too.

I think this weekend I want to start on the short caboose, 0402.  Pics once I have something.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Uhh, don't you think you'll need to start with benchwork?

[Dave V]

Uhh, don't you think you'll need to start with benchwork?

Not till I have enough "stuff" to justify it.  I like having structures and cars done in advance.

[Dave V]

[davefoxx]

  Sounds nice (even through my laptop speakers)!

DFF

[Dave V]

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[Chris333]

oooh is that resin?  Who make it? 

[Dave V]

oooh is that resin?  Who make it? 

Yup, it's about the finest resin kit I've ever built.

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[Chris333]

I just ordered the shorter one door car shed 

This place makes some sweet resin kits as well:
http://www.mainstreet-heritage.com/

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Needs a photo of terrified n scale people staring at it!

[Dave V]

I just ordered the shorter one door car shed 

This place makes some sweet resin kits as well:
http://www.mainstreet-heritage.com/

Love those kits!  That Billy's Place looks a bit like a corner store that sat in Ridgway about a block west of the station.

I forgot how much nicer building HO structures is....  They're so much easier to work with and detail.  The downside is they use more paint...   

[Dave V]

So I have a few more kits for HOn3 passenger cars and I was thinking about how cool it would be to have a legitimate RGS steam-powered passenger train.  So, I've been trying to find out for sure whether they would have been red or green when the RGS stopped steam passenger service in 1933, after Galloping Goose #5 entered service.

Prior to that, the RGS had 3 mixed trains in rotation, each with a combine or baggage car and one coach.

The original color for RGS passenger equipment was a deep maroon or Tuscan, just like the D&RG...with gold leaf lettering (although there's some historical evidence to suggest a few ochre-colored passenger cars in the 1890s).  It's generally accepted that around 1918, the equipment was supposed to be repainted to Pullman Green with gold lettering in accordance with USRA direction.  These cars were stored surplus or used in MoW service after 1933.  By World War II, the remaining passenger equipment was freight car red (including the roof) with white lettering in MOW service.  Around the start of World War II, coaches 252, 256, and 260 (the last remianing coaches) had some of their windows boarded up as part of the MOW conversion, although presumably at first the cars retained all their windows.  Combine 257 survived the RGS to serve today as a coach on the D&SNGRR.  Combine 259 wasn't so lucky, having been apparently scrapped around 1939 or so.

Here's what I've learned:

1)  I got a copy of Ferrell's Silver San Juan, and that's where I first read years ago in my Dad's copy that the cars would have been green with white lettering after 1918, or so he says in the equipment appendix.

2)  Other references I've found say the RGS followed D&RGW practice, which was to use Pullman Green with gold lettering after 1918.

3)  A color photograph from 1938 shows RGS coach 252 with the Edna behind #25 on a special for Victor Miller and the RFC loan guy (Barriger)...and Edna is green with gold lettering yet coach 252 is red with white lettering and--in fact--it looks as if at least one of the quarter-rounds is black!

4)  One of my books has a picture of coach 260 in Rico still as a coach in 1939 though weather beaten.  It's black and white, but the color looks like it could be a faded red.  Yet another photo I found online has the 260 in Durango in 1933 and it's very dark in color, suggesting fresh Pullman Green.

5)  Combine 257 sat in Ridgway next to the turntable until abandonment and it's clearly a reddish color (including the roof) but the lettering color can't be made out.

6)  During the late 1930s, some D&RGW open-vestibule coaches were painted a freight car red with white lettering (there are a handful of rare online photos of this...and instead of spelling out the road name on the letter board, they had D&RGW initials below the windows).  Some of these were used on the RGS when the RGS was running Civilian Conservation Corps specials in 1940.  The rest of the cars in that consist were standard green D&RGW cars with gold lettering, probably from the Chili Line.

I joined a narrow gauge discussion forum and posed the question.  One guy had worked on the Rico at the railroad museum and when they scraped the paint, they found that a Pullman Green coat had been applied in 1918 (because the RGS dated the paint job in gold lettering) before getting another coat of red later when it went into MoW service.

It's suggested that after 1933 many of these cars were used in work train service without modification other than paint (a coat of freight car red)...that is to say that they hadn't had the windows boarded up yet.

So the red with gold was definitely before 1918...the question is which cars went green after 1918 (the USRA required *all* of them to be so painted, but this was the RGS after all)?  So if I wanted to "bend" history and run a passenger train in 1939 using what equipment still existed in passenger configuration (combines 257 & 259, and coaches 252, 256, and 260) what freaking color should they be?  And the answer still is:

I don't know.

[johnb]

Dave, I get the color thing....I am running into the same thing about the lettering on Pacific Electric Caboose....even the historical society don't know when they changed lettering styling....and now it is the colors of stations....

[pdx1955]

Considering that many obsolete passenger car schemes lasted for years beyond when they "should" have been repainted and that you've done a pretty thorough analysis, I'd just assume that both would be possible. Therefore, I'd assume that at least one , maybe two of those five remaining cars could be red. Clearly there isn't anything super concrete to say one way or the other, so I'd go with a mix , say one combine and one coach red and the rest green.  I think you'd have justification to go either way especially since you're already stretching the passenger train timeframe. Just go with what feels the best to you.