HOn3 Rio Grande Southern First District 1938-1945

[Dave V]

There is something wholly natural and right in my modeling aims now...  This is a railroad crying out to be done in a manner that neither trivializes its environs nor exaggerates its hardships which yet, at every turn, appears to have been designed not by the pathfinder Otto Mears but by a model railroader with precious little exposure to real railroads.  At the same time it was still quintessentially "railroady."  Short, manageable trains pulled by handsome--if bruised--steam locomotives through scenery that corrupts the English language on timetables that were less rules than ambitious suggestions.

In the 1940s, famed railroad writers Luscius Beebe and Charles Clegg rode the RGS at the rear of a much-advertised mixed running north from Durango to Ridgway.  Luscius wrote years later in his Narrow Gauge in the Rockies:

    “The outstanding characteristic of the Rio Grande Southern Railroad was its complete and overwhelming improbability.  Except for the evidence of photographic record, it would be possible to doubt it ever existed, and the doubt would be amply justified.  Except in the extravagantly optimistic railroad thinking of the time and place, the Rio Grande Southern could never have come into being. In the biological sense of the word, it was a sport, valiant, lonely, tenacious beyond the call of duty or reason.  Say its name with bugles in the lexicon of the Old West, for the Rio Grande Southern was a lost cause, an allegory of futility when it was first conceived and it ended its long, unquiet life contributing to the essence of the destruction that was Hiroshima.

    “Perhaps in the Valhalla of railroads where the lights on the tangents are green forever, the Rio Grande Southern has achieved some tranquility and repose.  They will be wholly out of character.

    “Terrible tempered, like its builder Otto Mears, to the end the improbable Rio Grande Southern nevertheless confounded prophets of doom for decades and outlived many a more robust and promising contemporary.  The Friar Lawrence of the narrow gauges, its entire life span a record of confusion and mistaken missions, it left its impress on the elemental Colorado earth and in the memory of two entire generations of the American West.  In the roundhouse of eternity there are neither derailments nor creditors and its rest is untroubled in the surrounding night.”

    “When, in years to come, men shall name the names of sparkling romance that are the lexicon of the Old West, the names that clutch at the heart and have entered the stream of the nation’s consciousness, the Alamo, Tombstone, Dodge City, the Staked Plains, Santa Fe Trail, South Pass, Union Pacific, Deadwood, Wells Fargo and Virginia City, they will be well advised to include in that valiant tally, the name of Otto Mears’s masterpiece, the lonely, desolate, and perhaps futile but still transcendently triumphant Rio Grande Southern Railroad."

[Mike C]

 When I was much younger I had the good fortune to have 2 really great HOn3 layouts less than a half hour from me . One was Karl Parshall 's RGS layout that is pretty much the same thing as you are wanting to do . I remember running a few trains over his layout and enjoyed it very much . I've looked around the net for pics of his layout , but so far have not come up with anything . If you contact the Mini Bunch Yahoo group someone may have pics there .

The other layout was owned by "Doc" Harry Sage . It was Chama to Antonito with PFM sound system . I ran many ops sessions on this layout ! If I remember correct it was featured in MR back in the 80"s or 90"s , and maybe in the Gazette too ? Both layouts still exist , A man named John Kimball has Karls layout stored in his basement , and Harry's son has the whole layout in his basement and is working on rebuilding it . Both men could probably be contacted via the Mini Bunch yahoo group it you are interested .

[Dave V]

When I was much younger I had the good fortune to have 2 really great HOn3 layouts less than a half hour from me . One was Karl Parshall 's RGS layout that is pretty much the same thing as you are wanting to do . I remember running a few trains over his layout and enjoyed it very much . I've looked around the net for pics of his layout , but so far have not come up with anything . If you contact the Mini Bunch Yahoo group someone may have pics there .

The other layout was owned by "Doc" Harry Sage . It was Chama to Antonito with PFM sound system . I ran many ops sessions on this layout ! If I remember correct it was featured in MR back in the 80"s or 90"s , and maybe in the Gazette too ? Both layouts still exist , A man named John Kimball has Karls layout stored in his basement , and Harry's son has the whole layout in his basement and is working on rebuilding it . Both men could probably be contacted via the Mini Bunch yahoo group it you are interested .

Do you know where these layouts are located?  I'm already learning of a few HOn3 RGS types right here in Colorado Springs (perhaps unsurprisingly).

[wcfn100]

This just popped up on one of the Yahoo groups.

https://www.facebook.com/stevesrgs/

Jason

[Dave V]

This just popped up on one of the Yahoo groups.

https://www.facebook.com/stevesrgs/

Jason

Yup, @Philip H tagged me on that page.  Been digesting it this afternoon.  Great photos of the RoW in the 21st century and a very ambitious layout. 

Part of me wants to invade the entire basement to do something similar...  I think it'd really scream RGS to take a good 30+ minutes in real time to move a train over the layout.  But the reality is that if I want to do this to the level of visual detail I'm after, I need to do something much smaller.  One can always extend the run by requiring operators to make one full trip around before stopping at the next station.  I plan to keep my grades to 2%, which means that while there are grades to confront, in reality even a C19 with a short train could drill the loops without a helper.

[wcfn100]

Ran across this too. A couple years past your cutoff though.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rio-Grande-Southern-RGS-Engine-20-DRGW-452-at-Durango-in-1947-8x10-Photo-/292053103668?hash=item43ffb8b434:g:i~cAAOSw44BYiCdr


Jason

[Dave V]

Ran across this too. A couple years past your cutoff though.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rio-Grande-Southern-RGS-Engine-20-DRGW-452-at-Durango-in-1947-8x10-Photo-/292053103668?hash=item43ffb8b434:g:i~cAAOSw44BYiCdr


Jason

The RGS's only steel bridge.  Sometimes it's tempting to do the Durango-Dolores section of the Second District.  Mostly coal and lumber.  Other than the Lightner Creek Trestle (Bridge 160A), this section had no giant trestles, no sheer rock walls, and almost no hardrock mines.  It was mostly dry grass and ranch land dotted with sage and juniper, some timber, and lots of beanfields.  Yet even this section had its 4% grades on Cima Hill and wilderness running in the shallow yet twisty Lost Canyon.  It's the part that few bother to model but was decidedly more desert-like and less alpine than the perennial favorite First District.  The vast openness of most of this section makes modeling it more challenging than the high country.

[Mike C]

Do you know where these layouts are located?  I'm already learning of a few HOn3 RGS types right here in Colorado Springs (perhaps unsurprisingly).

I'm in Columbus Ohio and both layouts are here . The RGS layout is in the Clintonville area , and Doc's layout is in the New Albany area .  Butch Sage is Doc's son , and I think he would be accessable via the Mini Bunch yahoo group . He would be able to connect you with John Kimball also .

[Philip H]

Yup, @Philip H tagged me on that page.  Been digesting it this afternoon.  Great photos of the RoW in the 21st century and a very ambitious layout. 

Part of me wants to invade the entire basement to do something similar...  I think it'd really scream RGS to take a good 30+ minutes in real time to move a train over the layout.  But the reality is that if I want to do this to the level of visual detail I'm after, I need to do something much smaller.  One can always extend the run by requiring operators to make one full trip around before stopping at the next station.  I plan to keep my grades to 2%, which means that while there are grades to confront, in reality even a C19 with a short train could drill the loops without a helper.

Having spent a little over 2 hours switching Bernie Kempenski's PoLA (a total of 30 or so cars) I can attest to the less is more approach. Me thinks you can do a lot in the spaces you have and never regret it.

[Dave V]

Been visualizing this in my head...  I want to have some means of turning a loco at the end of a run.  The RGS had but one lone turntable...up at its terminal/headquarters at Ridgway.  It did, however, have wyes all over the place.  But, wyes are space hogs.

So, would I be forgiven for putting a in weedy turntable just outside of Rico to perform the function of the Rico wye?  Other narrow-gauge examples contemporary to my RGS era would be on the D&RGW at the end of the Ouray Branch and at Embudo on the Chili Line.

[Missaberoad]

Been visualizing this in my head...  I want to have some means of turning a loco at the end of a run.  The RGS had but one lone turntable...up at its terminal/headquarters at Ridgway.  It did, however, have wyes all over the place.  But, wyes are space hogs.

So, would I be forgiven for putting a in weedy turntable just outside of Rico to perform the function of the Rico wye?  Other narrow-gauge examples contemporary to my RGS era would be on the D&RGW at the end of the Ouray Branch and at Embudo on the Chili Line.

Turning a locomotive on a Wye would add a bit more operational interest then a turntable. Also a locomotive navigating a little used Wye in the weeds has a visual charm to it.

That being said, if you can't shoehorn one into your plan (maybe by the stock pens, with a removable tail section) a turntable is more then believable and is way better then an 0-5-0.

[Chris333]

You can turn the whole train on a staging "yard turntable".

[Dave V]

You can turn the whole train on a staging "yard turntable".

Then I'm back to needing more space than I have to dedicate it.

I'm sure the real Rico had no turntable because the volume of snow Rico receives in winter (which lasts 8 months) would foul the pit so as to render it useless.

[chessie system fan]

What about a wye where each side serves a function.  Kind of like a logging track plan I drew a few weeks ago.



You've got main line, station, and yard sides.

[wcfn100]

I think Ryan's drop leaf is a good idea. 

Jason