PRR Questions...

[ljudice]

Looking at doing some PRR steam era modeling (after picking up a BLI M1a and getting hooked...)

Two time periods seem to make sense:

During WW-II:  K4, M1a, T1 (coming, as well as maybe more), troop trains, heavyweights, fair variety of freight

1954:  most steam still running, early diesels, more freight cars, more vehicles,  Kato Broadway cars

Any thoughts?

[muktown128]

If you want to model the WW II era, I would think that you'll want more variety of PPR steam.  H9/H10 2-8-0's, I1/I1sa 2-10-0's, L1 2-8-2's, etc.
These are available as brass models.  They pop up on eBay and normally sell in range of $350-600 each.

I would lean toward the 1954 era.  I think it would be easier to build a roster with more variety.
That is pretty much what I am doing. 

Scott

[Dave V]

So far so good there, although T1s weren't running by '54 (although that will not stop me from running one in my otherwise-1956 era!).  By '54 the K4s were off most mainline passenger trains as well, but still used in commuter service and mail/express trains.  They could even be found "snapping (helping)" at Horseshoe Curve!

The Blue Ribbon Fleet passenger trains by '54 will almost exclusively E7/E8-powered (except under the wire which was GG1 territory).  Other passenger trains had a broader spectrum of diesel power including Alco PAs and even the occasional Baldwin passenger shark.

Ironically, most of the older, larger classes of steam were still going strong by '54.  These would be the M1s (almost all of the 301 were still going) in primarily freight service of all kinds, the I1s (of which there were once 473, most still a go in '54) most often found in coal drags and iron ore traffic, the L1s class, lots and lots of H-class 2-8-0s (primarily H8, 9,and 10).

By '54 the really old stuff was very rare (think E-class Atlantics, the D16sb class 4-4-0) to the tune of single digits.  B6sb 0-6-0 and other switcher classes were around, as might have been the odd A5 class 0-4-0.  J-class engines were still working west of Altoona but did not venture east because, allegedly, they would not fit through the duckunders at Rockville Bridge at the north end of Enola Yard.

I chose '56 because it allows me to run most of the stuff available.  Also, in '54, the shadow keystone scheme came into being, so I can run both that scheme (SK1a in PRR circles) and the older circle keystone stuff.  1956 was the last full year of PRR steam operations...steam was dead by November 1957 on all PRR lines except the Union Transportation Co in New Jersey which kept a B6sb 0-6-0 running for a few more years.

Hope this helps!

[MichaelWinicki]

Interesting topic.  I've wondered how the PRR determined where steam would & would not run towards the end.

For example the Buffalo line was completely devoid of steam by '54.  There were "dead" steamers stacked all over Renova and Olean just waiting to be scrapped like this guy...

[Dave V]

Not sure...  It surprised me to learn how much was still steam powered on the mainline.  I read somewhere that even in 1956, you could expect half the trains to be pulled by an M1 on the Middle Division.

[ljudice]

My presumption is BLI will do more stuff like the I's and the L's....

My modeling idea is a proto-freelance idea I've had for 20 years - the Hudson Susquehanna, a PRR owned trunk line from Jersey City to Allentown to Williamsport to Alliance and Youngstown. Double track - in this era.  I've rehashed this idea for CR and PC themes as well.

Thanks for the ideas - more welcome....

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Doooo it.

[Point353]

My modeling idea is a proto-freelance idea I've had for 20 years - the Hudson Susquehanna, a PRR owned trunk line from Jersey City to Allentown to Williamsport to Alliance and Youngstown. Double track - in this era.  I've rehashed this idea for CR and PC themes as well.

A routing parallel to the CNJ or LV reaches the Allentown area, and then parallel to the RDG gets as far as Williamsport.
What do you envision as the route between Williamsport and eastern Ohio?
Would it head more or less directly west along the path of present day I-80, or did you have something else in mind?

[ljudice]

I mapped this out in detail once - but lost it!  I believe it was Allentown - Wilkes Barre - Williamsport - Avis Yard (PRR Buffalo Line) - Clearfield - Puxatawny - and then into Ohio.

The NJ part might even be rights over the LV.

[dougnelson]

Split the difference. My choice for era is 1948-1952. Plenty of steam (on freight and passenger) and a big variety of early diesels including DGLE passenger units. T1s and K4s still holding secondary passenger and mail & express trains. A few surviving FOM passenger cars and all Circle Keystone freight equipment.  Also a mix of both heavyweight and streamline passenger cars. By the way, if you like military trains, there were troop trains and other movements during the Korean War.

[robert3985]

I model the U.P. and about ten years ago, I decided that it was time to establish an era and sell off all my cars and engines that didn't fit.  To make a semi-long story short, I decided to model a decade rather than a specific day or year, because there were paint jobs, engines, cars, trains and structures that were changing shortly after WWII and I wanted to be able to run what I liked up to point...some features on trains only lasted a few months, such as cupola running boards on U.P. steel cabooses and observation dome cars with no rear door or vestibule so that they only ran on the back of certain city trains.  Also, many U.P. engines were painted two-tone gray in 1946, but got painted back to black in the early '50's...and passenger equipment was a kaleidoscope of colors at the beginning of 1947, but was almost all Armour Yellow ten years later.  I like both.

So, I run trains and cars that existed between the beginning of 1947 and the end of 1956.  However, structures and signals on the railroad are dated at 1951, because in 1952, the SP roundhouse and turntable in Ogden was torn down...and I want it, and the U.P. roundhouse and turntable on my layout as they were prototypically in 1951.

I'm not a Pennsy fan, but perhaps something similar to what I did for establishing different styles of eras for both trains and scenery would be more advantageous to you than a more narrow era which either one of your choices demand.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[Lemosteam]

Perhaps a stretch into 195? Atlantic City for some oceanfront modeling on the edge of a layout?

[muktown128]

If you want some PRR action near the ocean, check out the NY&LB.  This was operated by the PRR and CNJ and terminated at Bay Head, NJ.  I grew up in the area about 20 years too late and missed the K4's, Passenger Sharks and PA units that used to pull commuter trains on this line.  At one time, the line extended south of Bay Head down to Seaside Park and crossed the Barnegat Bay to Toms River.  I remember walking on the old trestle bridge in Seaside Park as a kid.

The NY&LB is part of NJ Transit and is the North Jersey Coastline.  I rode the train from Bay Head to NYC this summer with my family.  It was neat to see some old signature PRR stuff (signals, fencing)on the ride.

Scott

[ljudice]

If you want some PRR action near the ocean, check out the NY&LB.  This was operated by the PRR and CNJ and terminated at Bay Head, NJ.  I grew up in the area about 20 years too late and missed the K4's, Passenger Sharks and PA units that used to pull commuter trains on this line.  At one time, the line extended south of Bay Head down to Seaside Park and crossed the Barnegat Bay to Toms River.  I remember walking on the old trestle bridge in Seaside Park as a kid.

The NY&LB is part of NJ Transit and is the North Jersey Coastline.  I rode the train from Bay Head to NYC this summer with my family.  It was neat to see some old signature PRR stuff (signals, fencing)on the ride.

Scott

Yep, I managed to grow up with the E8's and CNJ Trainmasters - my grandparents lived in  on the shore area for many years!!!

[mmagliaro]

I play the "spread" game too - 1947 - 1954, which lets me run some steam I really like that was on its way out at the end of the 40s, and run some of the cooler 1st gen diesels of the early 50s.   Unless you are a stickler for one specific year (and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that), the transition period just after WWII can be a "5 or 7 year span" and really open up your possibilities.