N scale CPR/BCR Royal Hudson build thread

[craigolio1]

That is very interesting (and pretty sad from customer support perspective). Mike from Model Power's customer support was really good with replacement parts. Now MRC got rid of the spares?  That means they will be another company (like Walthers) that does not supply customers with spares. 

Now the interesting part: When I was browsing the MRC tables at the Springfield show, there was an older gentleman at a table around the MRC area and he was selling hundreds of spare parts. Some Rivarossi, some Minitrix, and lots of Model Power parts. Fairly inexpensive too. They were all individually bagged and marked. I wonder if that was the person who bought out the Model Power parts from MRC?  I did buy bunch of parts from him (the prices were pretty good).  I should have asked him if he does online business too.  Maybe he is the MRC parts guy?

They have spares for the MRC branded locos, hence how I was able to order the wheels.  Just not anything that was for the original MP branded locos. Now in this case one appears to be the same as the other so I made out ok but I can't speak for other models.

The don't know the name of the fellow I spoke to but he was very nice, helpful and seemed quite knowledgeable. However the person I was emailing had to have explained the difference between traction tires and traction tire equipped wheels. At first the thought one was the other. May have just been confusion. I have no idea. Email has no context. In the end I got what I needed so I'm happy.

[CNR5529]

I'm also converting mine to live steam.

DCC compatible live steam right? At least you wont have to worry about synchronizing the chuff rate... 

[craigolio1]

Starting to make some progress on the photo etchings. It's taking me a while to learn the software but I'm getting there.

[CNR5529]

I know it is not a tender frame, but I thought I would try a quick test for drawing the stack shroud. This is an approximation and not the final shape, but it is close to the original teardrop style shroud on as build H1c and H1d Royal Hudsons, minus the angled number boards. In an effort to reduce the amount of smoke in the engineer's line of sight, this style of stack was later replaced with either the "bathtub stack" shroud as seen on 2839 and 2860 now, or "straight stack" as seen on 2850 and 2858 now. I will be drawing all three styles of stacks, so that we can build whatever configuration of locomotive we want.

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[craigolio1]

Nice work.

I put together a comparison shot of the valve gear currently available for us to use. It was pointed out to me a while back that the valve ear on the Kato GS4 is a good match. Unfortunately it's not available from Kato anymore, but Fredrick pointed out that the FEF gear is very close as well, and the side rod assemblies, which are what's needed, are still available in kato's parts department.

The top shot is 2860
The middle is the GS4
And the bottom is the FEF

[Lemosteam]

Nice work.

I put together a comparison shot of the valve gear currently available for us to use. It was pointed out to me a while back that the valve ear on the Kato GS4 is a good match. Unfortunately it's not available from Kato anymore, but Fredrick pointed out that the FEF gear is very close as well, and the side rod assemblies, which are what's needed, are still available in kato's parts department.

The top shot is 2860
The middle is the GS4
And the bottom is the FEF



Gent's you might consider using the Bachmann K4 mecahnism.  Near the same linkage, similar wheelbase, design the shell around the split-frame design, design a four axle FXD trailing truck & drawbar and re-use all of the electronics.  Not sure what your tender looks like but here is what I have done on a similar project for Keystone Details.  It is a Streamlined K4.  This is nearly two years of design work at night:

https://goo.gl/photos/hKEzaL878ZTQaHFN6

[CNR5529]

John, well done with your streamlined K4! Would you be able to tell us what the driver size is on the Bachmann model? We are aiming for 75" drivers, with the MP model being a little short of that. The larger than scale tread width flange depth compensates though to give the model the right look. Thanks.

[Lemosteam]

I will have to take some measurements for you tonight.  Another thing to consider is the cylinder centers on the Bachmann are, lets say, "Chipmunked".  This is to provide what I think is excessive rod clearance.  In order to avoid making the model appear too wide, I had to design in some integral slides to the fairing.  You might not need this if your fairing does not cover the cylinders.

[peteski]

John, well done with your streamlined K4! Would you be able to tell us what the driver size is on the Bachmann model? We are aiming for 75" drivers, with the MP model being a little short of that. The larger than scale tread width compensates though to give the model the right look. Thanks.

Tread width making the drivers appear larger diameter?  I suspect you meant larger flanges (as those visually increase the diameter of a model's driver).

Gent's you might consider using the Bachmann K4 mecahnism.  Near the same linkage, similar wheelbase, design the shell around the split-frame design, design a four axle FXD trailing truck & drawbar and re-use all of the electronics.

John, I would be leery using Bachmann anything as a base for a kitbashed model.  Sorry, I got burned too many times.  Especially when comparing Bachmann's engineering to Kato's engineering and performance.  The "chipmunked"" cylinders are also quite visually distracting. That seems to be just more proof that the Chinese designers of models lack experience and finesse of more seasoned designers from other companies.  There doesn't seem to be anything about the K4's valve gear which would dictate moving the cylinders seemingly that far out. There are dozens of N scale steam locos (many with the same wheel arrangement)  which have more natural  look to them.  While I have not taking actual dimensions (I don't own a K4), to me the photos seem to clearly show the stuffed-cheeks appearance.

But in any case, if both Kato and Bachmann models were close in dimensions to what I need, I would not even for a second consider Bachmann.  And just to prove that I'm not just blindly bashing Bachmann, while I have no direct experience with K4, I had my paws on their Berkshire model (which seems to follow similar design). I had it apart and I was not very impressed with the engineering or the quality of the assembly.

[Lemosteam]

Just offering an alternative.  If they are basing their kit design on the availability of Kato service parts, it will limit the customer base much more.  I have been looking for the Kato Laird style slides and cylinders for a long time hoping to use them as Kitbash fodder.

Besides, no split axle tubes on the K4 so far... Lol. 

[Lemosteam]

Driver diameter at tread is 11.50mm / 25.4 = 0.453" X 160 = 72.44" in 1:1.

Flange diameter is 12.86mm / 25.4 = 0.506" X 160 = 81" in 1:1.

Axle spacing is 13.17mm / 25.4 = 0.519" X 160 = 83" in 1:1.

Leading truck axle spacing is 13.49mm / 25.4 = 0.531" X 160 = 84.94"  in 1:1.

Leading truck wheel diameter is 5.2mm / 25.4 = 0.205" X 160 = 32.76" in 1:1.

Leading truck flange diameter is 5.85mm / 25.4 = 0.230" X 160 = 36.85" in 1:1.

Hope this helps. 

[CNR5529]

Tread width making the drivers appear larger diameter?  I suspect you meant larger flanges (as those visually increase the diameter of a model's driver).

  Yep, that. I have been looking at damaged wheel treads at work... I meant flange depth.

Driver diameter at tread is 11.50mm / 25.4 = 0.453" X 160 = 72.44" in 1:1.

Flange diameter is 12.86mm / 25.4 = 0.506" X 160 = 81" in 1:1.

Axle spacing is 13.17mm / 25.4 = 0.519" X 160 = 83" in 1:1.

Leading truck axle spacing is 13.49mm / 25.4 = 0.531" X 160 = 84.94"  in 1:1.

Leading truck wheel diameter is 5.2mm / 25.4 = 0.205" X 160 = 32.76" in 1:1.

Leading truck flange diameter is 5.85mm / 25.4 = 0.230" X 160 = 36.85" in 1:1.

Hope this helps. 

Indeed it does, thanks for the info. The driver tread diameter is a bit closer to what we are looking for, but the overall wheel is quite a bit bigger, as is the driver spacing. I have been generally impressed with the potential of Bachmann steam engines in recent years, especially the mogul and santa-fe (both can be made into fairly accurate CNR classes). In the end though I think we will stick with the MP pacific for this project. The wheel base is just bit closer, but more importantly both Craig and I already have some MPs on hand 

[peteski]

Just offering an alternative.  If they are basing their kit design on the availability of Kato service parts, it will limit the customer base much more.  I have been looking for the Kato Laird style slides and cylinders for a long time hoping to use them as Kitbash fodder.

Besides, no split axle tubes on the K4 so far... Lol. 

You do have point with the spare parts availability. But Neither Kato nor Bachmann are in business selling replacement parts. Bot companies offer those parts but only on limited basis.  Modelers using spare parts of commercial models in their own designs are at the mercy of model manufacturers' limited spare parts availability.

As far as the cracked axle tubes go, no model manufacturer is perfect (but some are closer to perfection than others).    Kato redesigned the failing parts and made the new parts available. This is not the first time Kato has offered a fix for a faluty design.  When was the last time we seen Bachmann offer somethign like that?

[CNR5529]

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

I knew there was a picture somewhere of a royal hudson without its jacket...

[Lemosteam]

I went through all of the posts and coud not find a picture of the locomotive you are referring to WRT to this thread.