Possible kitbash for MTL PS-1?

[bbussey]

"Everything" isn't the wrong way.  I understand the finance issue and the desire to re-purpose existing equipment.  But it makes no sense to me to start with flawed components to kitbash a model of a specific prototype.  The goal should be to craft as accurate a model as possible.  There currently are at least two 52'6" gondola models available now that ride at the correct height.  So, would you start with an undersized ride-challenged MTL model to kitbash a 52'6" prototype?  Or would you start with a BLMA or Prairie Shadows gondola?  Or even start from scratch?  Why would a boxcar model be any different?   Especially if the end corrugations are stretched in height as well, as they are on the MTL PS-1 models?

Jason's NP combo-door Atlas/MTL kitbash sounds intriguing.  I'll have to add that to my list of freight car projects.  Twelve bow-ties on the roof?

[wcfn100]

Twelve bow-ties on the roof?

Yeah.

http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=39079

And I edited my previous post as I'm using the 50' combination door MTL car as a donor.  That's the 33000 series.  I don't remember off the top of my head why but I think it's the door width.

Jason

[cjm413]

"Everything" isn't the wrong way.  I understand the finance issue and the desire to re-purpose existing equipment.  But it makes no sense to me to start with flawed components to kitbash a model of a specific prototype.  The goal should be to craft as accurate a model as possible.  There currently are at least two 52'6" gondola models available now that ride at the correct height.  So, would you start with an undersized ride-challenged MTL model to kitbash a 52'6" prototype?  Or would you start with a BLMA or Prairie Shadows gondola?  Or even start from scratch?  Why would a boxcar model be any different?   Especially if the end corrugations are stretched in height as well, as they are on the MTL PS-1 models?

Jason's NP combo-door Atlas/MTL kitbash sounds intriguing.  I'll have to add that to my list of freight car projects.  Twelve bow-ties on the roof?

If my primary objective was to build the most accurate models as possible, I wouldn't have seen any reason to downsize from HO to N.

Re: 52'6" gons, there are far more than 2 options available for accurately dimensioned 52'6" gondola that haven't been jacked up to "flood proof" levels, and even the Athearn 50' gondola had an acceptable ride height (but the wrong underframe and crappy coupler boxes)

40' PS-1's could use one of two accurately dimensioned 40' PS-1's (Kadee or IMRC) and the conversion kits offered by Chad Boas.   Chad Boas also offered car sides for 40' combination door cars that weren't built by PS that could be constructed with separate components that aren't readily available as separate parts in N, e.g. Branchline (now Atlas) ends and roofs, Accurail floors, etc.

http://www.pbase.com/pcmodeler/image/145058807

However, as you point out, there have been enough manufacturers (including yourself) that have stepped up to the plate in challenging the status quo where I'm confident that my decision to downsize has allowed me to take far more steps forward with my primary objective of having models that I could actually operate vs any steps backwards I've admittedly had to take with accuracy and/or availability.

[wazzou]

I guess I look at like this: my modeling time is more limited now as I continue to age, as in the number of things I'll accomplish before I can no longer accomplish them any longer, so I don't feel like re-inventing my wheel because 40 years later, a better wheel has come out.

So, these will stay and I'll likely complete the 10' door car and cast others because it will look better with these.



and will look fine with these too.



and these.



I feel I just need to draw the line somewhere and I'll be happy still. 

[cjm413]

I guess I look at like this: my modeling time is more limited now as I continue to age, as in the number of things I'll accomplish before I can no longer accomplish them any longer, so I don't feel like re-inventing my wheel because 40 years later, a better wheel has come out.

So, these will stay and I'll likely complete the 10' door car and cast others because it will look better with these.



and will look fine with these too.



and these.



I feel I just need to draw the line somewhere and I'll be happy still. 

All three cars are probably more accurate representations of the prototype than my Atlas GP30's.

[sirenwerks]

I guess I look at like this: my modeling time is more limited now as I continue to age, as in the number of things I'll accomplish before I can no longer accomplish them any longer, so I don't feel like re-inventing my wheel because 40 years later, a better wheel has come out.

So, these will stay and I'll likely complete the 10' door car and cast others because it will look better with these.



and will look fine with these too.



and these.



I feel I just need to draw the line somewhere and I'll be happy still. 

I'm looking forward to hooking up with you when I get to Portland.

[nkalanaga]

Years ago, someone made a combination door 40 ft boxcar, other than the MT model.  I had one, painted for CP Rail, but have no idea where it is now.  I've never seen another, in stores or layout photos. 

According to Spookshow's site, it seems to have been the JCT version of the AHM/Roco model, but I don't remember ever seeing that one, either.  He also says that the JCT version was sold only in Canada, which doesn't explain how I ended up with one.  As a teenager, I certainly didn't buy it from Canada...  Mine was the red version, rather than the silver one he pictures.  Unfortunately, it wouldn't help to bring it back, as it was also a PS-1.  It would be nice to have the combination door option on an AAR car.

[bbussey]

http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=39079

And I edited my previous post as I'm using the 50' combination door MTL car as a donor.  That's the 33000 series.  I don't remember off the top of my head why but I think it's the door width.

Definitely the plug-door width.  I think it's 6' on the 22000 series model.

[bbussey]

If my primary objective was to build the most accurate models as possible, I wouldn't have seen any reason to downsize from HO to N.

Re: 52'6" gons, there are far more than 2 options available for accurately dimensioned 52'6" gondola that haven't been jacked up to "flood proof" levels, and even the Athearn 50' gondola had an acceptable ride height (but the wrong underframe and crappy coupler boxes)

40' PS-1's could use one of two accurately dimensioned 40' PS-1's (Kadee or IMRC) and the conversion kits offered by Chad Boas.   Chad Boas also offered car sides for 40' combination door cars that weren't built by PS that could be constructed with separate components that aren't readily available as separate parts in N, e.g. Branchline (now Atlas) ends and roofs, Accurail floors, etc.

http://www.pbase.com/pcmodeler/image/145058807

However, as you point out, there have been enough manufacturers (including yourself) that have stepped up to the plate in challenging the status quo where I'm confident that my decision to downsize has allowed me to take far more steps forward with my primary objective of having models that I could actually operate vs any steps backwards I've admittedly had to take with accuracy and/or availability.

If you're willing to compromise on inside length, then yes there are more than two models available to model 52'6" gondolas. 

A 50' car is not a 52'6" car, regardless if the ride height is good.  That is a greater distance than the excess height in the MTL PS-1s.

The premise that "it's my railroad and I can do what I want" certainly applies here.  But to say the MTL model is a viable option for kitbashing a good representative model of the prototype specified is not factual.

[cjm413]

If you're willing to compromise on inside length, then yes there are more than two models available to model 52'6" gondolas. 

A 50' car is not a 52'6" car, regardless if the ride height is good.  That is a greater distance than the excess height in the MTL PS-1s.

The premise that "it's my railroad and I can do what I want" certainly applies here.  But to say the MTL model is a viable option for kitbashing a good representative model of the prototype specified is not factual.

To be clear, I was referring the number of accurate (but "Horribly Oversized") models of 52'6" gons.   Right off the bat, here's a single manufacturer that offers 3 of them:

https://www.tangentscalemodels.com/view-buy-models/

By the time one considers the availability of any given model (including locomotives, passenger cars, structures, etc.), parts, decals, etc from the sole perspective of building accurate models, finding enough real estate for H(orribly) O(versized) becomes a far more practical option than enforcing a zero tolerance policy in N(ot-available)

[wcfn100]

By the time one considers the availability of any given model (including locomotives, passenger cars, structures, etc.), parts, decals, etc from the sole perspective of building accurate models, finding enough real estate for H(orribly) O(versized) becomes a far more practical option than enforcing a zero tolerance policy in N(ot-available)

If you know where to look, there are enough pieces and parts to make unique accurate models in N scale until you're put in the ground. Beyond that, if 3D printing ever makes good on its promises, N scale can easily surpass HO for freight car availability. I have three cars myself that have never been done in any scale just waiting for a good enough printing option. 


Jason

[Mark5]

Years ago, someone made a combination door 40 ft boxcar, other than the MT model.  I had one, painted for CP Rail, but have no idea where it is now.  I've never seen another, in stores or layout photos. 

Con-Cor makes (or made) one - they call it a plywood box car:



Is that the one?

EDIT: Apparently this is the Roco car originally imported by AHM, and also JCT (Canada)

Mark

[cjm413]

If you know where to look, there are enough pieces and parts to make unique accurate models in N scale until you're put in the ground. Beyond that, if 3D printing ever makes good on its promises, N scale can easily surpass HO for freight car availability. I have three cars myself that have never been done in any scale just waiting for a good enough printing option. 


Jason

OK, I'll bite...

How do you fix the numerous flaws with the Atlas GP30 without switching to HO and replacing them with Proto 2000 GP30's?

If waiting for products that don't yet exist, developments in 3D printing, etc, is the only recourse I have, how is that any better than waiting for enough real estate to operate 4 accurate HO GP30's with about 100 accurately dimensioned HO cars?

[wcfn100]

How do you fix the numerous flaws with the Atlas GP30 without switching to HO and replacing them with Proto 2000 GP30's?

You don't, but the question would be why are you even in N scale if accurate GP30's are your thing?  It been the same choice for 30 years.

There's plenty you can do if you spend less time worrying about what you can't and 3D printing is here enough to make more modeling possible than anyone could ever finish in a lifetime.

Jason

[cjm413]

You don't, but the question would be why are you even in N scale if accurate GP30's are your thing?  It been the same choice for 30 years.

There's plenty you can do if you spend less time worrying about what you can't and 3D printing is here enough to make more modeling possible than anyone could ever finish in a lifetime.

Jason

That's the point.  If I could accept the flaws of four Atlas GP30's (or 3 Kato SD40's), I'm not going to get my knickers in a knot over a single car that I could potentially recycle from a surplus MTL PS-1 on a kitbash that is calculated to mitigate some (but admittedly not all) of the model's flaws.

Even in HO, I didn't see any harm in recycling a surplus Details West FGE RBL (Walthers model has correct rivet pattern) by replacing the stock plug door with a spare McKean/Accurail plug door I had in my parts box and some styrene to reshape the sill to make an admittedly less than 100% accurate stand-in of a CGW St Paul Foundry RBL

Original DW car:
http://d2ydh70d4b5xgv.cloudfront.net/images/8/f/details-west-bc703-ho-50-insulated-boxcar-kit-fruit-growers-express-fge-l-n-30-3ba67de27ea7c8c23e0389f586f245f1.jpg

Accurail plug door (for lack of a more accurate 10'6" door):

http://www.accurail.com/accurail/art/Details/110.jpg

Prototype:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/cgw/cgw10117jpa.jpg