Possible kitbash for MTL PS-1?

[bbussey]

I have thought about and pondered this alot, and the more I think about it the more I agree with Bryan. If you want the most accurate model possible sell the MTL cars and start with an Atlas PS-1. While it was years ahead of its time in 1972 the industry (including MTL) has surpassed it. 

But for the sake of this thread lets set aside the fact that the modern Atlas PS-1 is a better starting point then the MTL car for any model based off a PS-1.
and keep the original premise that we are looking for a use for the MTL car, here's a few Ideas I've been throwing around in my head:

Rebuilt wood chip boxcars owned by CP & BAR. By removing the roof, door, door tracks and modifying the height of the car, we can conceal or removes many of the issues with the MTL car.
These cars are likely different enough to not look out of place next to an Atlas PS-1.   

The BAR woodchip cars were rebuilt from XIH boxcars.  The ESM model is the logical starting point for that prototype.

And, even for the sake of this thread, what is the inner height of the LV, RI and EL cars?  And they look like ex-PS1s to me.

You'd have to do so much surgery on the MTL model to make it close to any prototype kitbash, so why do it?  What's the point of kitbashing a model of a specific prototype if you don't make it an accurate model?  And why make a project more difficult when there are better models to start with?

There are components and details of the MTL PS-1s that can be salvaged for use in constructing kitbashed models, most certainly.  The wide plug door on the 21000-series model is beautiful and can be used for a number of models, as can the narrow plug door from the 23000-series model.  But the body overall, no.

[wcfn100]

There are components and details of the MTL PS-1s that can be salvaged for use in constructing kitbashed models, most certainly.  The wide plug door on the 21000-series model is beautiful and can be used for a number of models, as can the narrow plug door from the 23000-series model. 

The wide plug on the 21000 series can't be used as is for anything because it's too tall.  Unlike it's standard door counterparts, the lower door track is on the sill where it's supposed to be, but with the added height of the car, the door is too tall to use for anything (except an 11' IH car I suppose).  The 22000 (which is what I assume you mean) has a good donor door because it's a combination door and they used the (incorrect) higher door track.

I have a 22000 on my desk right now to try and convert the Atlas PS-1 into an NP combination door car using the MTL plug door.

edit: I'm using a 33000 series as a plug door donor which is the 50' combination door car.


Jason

[Missaberoad]

The BAR woodchip cars were rebuilt from XIH boxcars.  The ESM model is the logical starting point for that prototype.

And, even for the sake of this thread, what is the inner height of the LV, RI and EL cars?  And they look like ex-PS1s to me.

You'd have to do so much surgery on the MTL model to make it close to any prototype kitbash, so why do it?  What's the point of kitbashing a model of a specific prototype if you don't make it an accurate model?

BAR also had ex PS1's in woodchip service the cars I posted are not ex. XIH here they are again.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bar/bar3371jpa.jpg

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1008188

and yes they are all ex PS-1 rebuilds (where did I say they weren't?) and I believe I said at least 2 times that the Atlas car would be a better starting point.

As for why? I don't know if I have an answer for you. @cjm413 brought up the subject and is obviously interested in doing this with full knowledge of the flaws in the MTL model. I simply attempted to post some information relevant to the subject of the thread. Nowhere did I give the impression that the model would be perfect or better then an Atlas based model.

[cjm413]

Well within reason we wouldn't want to do anything foolish like switch to HO! 

In all seriousness, with a few compromises due to scale I would go so far as to say the Atlas car is on that level...

I still have some of those Kadee PS-1's lurking around from those "foolish" days 

It's much easier to appreciate the detail of an Atlas PS-1 that I could actually take out of the box and operate vs a Kadee PS-1 that has been stuck in a box for the last few years....

[cjm413]

You'd have to do so much surgery on the MTL model to make it close to any prototype kitbash, so why do it?  What's the point of kitbashing a model of a specific prototype if you don't make it an accurate model?  And why make a project more difficult when there are better models to start with?

Motivation is the difference.   If I run across a MTL car that managed to survive one of my purges, it forces my hand to either sell it or recycle it into something else.

If I don't have an undecorated Atlas PS-1 at my disposal, I'm more likely to wrap up one of my other unfinished projects rather than starting another one.

[wcfn100]

BAR also had ex PS1's in woodchip service the cars I posted are not ex. XIH here they are again.

BAR also had some ACF cars rebuilt into woodchip cars as well.

Jason

[cjm413]

The wide plug on the 21000 series can't be used as is for anything because it's too tall.  Unlike it's standard door counterparts, the lower door track is on the sill where it's supposed to be, but with the added height of the car, the door is too tall to use for anything (except an 11' IH car I suppose).  The 22000 (which is what I assume you mean) has a good donor door because it's a combination door and they used the (incorrect) higher door track.

I have a 22000 on my desk right now to try and convert the Atlas PS-1 into an NP combination door car using the MTL plug door.


Jason

On the subjects of "added height" and "plug door":

http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=56078

[cjm413]

On the subjects of "added height" and "plug door":

http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=56078

With original plug doors:

http://freight.railfan.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=kcs100072&o=kcs

[Missaberoad]

BAR also had some ACF cars rebuilt into woodchip cars as well.

Jason

Good point,  CP also had CCF built AAR cars that they converted. Since I was focusing on Pullman Standard cars I didn't mention these...

[wazzou]

As promised. 
I dug this out last night and just snapped a couple of quick phone pics.  I obviously was not as far along as I thought. 
I hadn't decided whether to shave the remainder of the ladder although I had reduced it to 4 rungs and had redone the ends to more closely reflect the placard location of the prototype. 
The doors are unattached in the photo.
I have Archer rivets for the door tracks and sill.
I would feel shame in finishing it now so I may re-do it with an Atlas body. 

[squirrelhunter]

I have a thought and a question-

On the MTL vs Atlas as the base car front, I looked at MB Klein's and at Ebay. A new Atlas PS-1 seems to run about $17 per car. On eBay, I saw a wide range of prices for what appeared to be PS-1's, but some were as cheap as $7-8. I guess if someone had to do multiple kitbashes of rebuilt PS-1's, it would be cheaper to scrounge for MTL cars than to buy new Atlas cars. Doubly so if one had a fleet of MTL PS-1's.

My question is there any good resource for learning more about 40' rebuild or late built 40' boxcars? I know MKT got some 40' ACF cars that look very similar to the Atlas N scale 50' ACF Precision Design model in the 60's, and thanks to this thread I know about the rebuilt NP, LV and EL cars. But is there anywhere else that is a good place to learn about rebuilt 40' cars? I model the late 70's to the early 80's and I know some 40 footers were still kicking around Texas and the Southwest.

[wazzou]

My issue is that at this point in my life after having purchased MT PS-1 cars since the mid to late 1970's, and lowering the ride height as well as switching them to FV metal wheels, I don't know if I want to bear the financial burden of sh!tcanning all of those in order to buy the now better Atlas PS-1.  Time will tell, I suppose.

[wcfn100]

guess if someone had to do multiple kitbashes of rebuilt PS-1's, it would be cheaper to scrounge for MTL cars than to buy new Atlas cars. Doubly so if one had a fleet of MTL PS-1's.

As much of a pipe dream it may be, I'm still hoping Atlas will be able to get parts for the PS-1 (or anything else for that matter). 


Jason

[cjm413]

I have a thought and a question-

On the MTL vs Atlas as the base car front, I looked at MB Klein's and at Ebay. A new Atlas PS-1 seems to run about $17 per car. On eBay, I saw a wide range of prices for what appeared to be PS-1's, but some were as cheap as $7-8. I guess if someone had to do multiple kitbashes of rebuilt PS-1's, it would be cheaper to scrounge for MTL cars than to buy new Atlas cars. Doubly so if one had a fleet of MTL PS-1's.

My question is there any good resource for learning more about 40' rebuild or late built 40' boxcars? I know MKT got some 40' ACF cars that look very similar to the Atlas N scale 50' ACF Precision Design model in the 60's, and thanks to this thread I know about the rebuilt NP, LV and EL cars. But is there anywhere else that is a good place to learn about rebuilt 40' cars? I model the late 70's to the early 80's and I know some 40 footers were still kicking around Texas and the Southwest.

For some reason, I recall the MKT 40' cars may have been covered in RMC in the early 1980's.

[nkalanaga]

Bryan:  That's my attitude as well.  They're paid for, I don't have as much money now as I did then, why spend what I have to replace them?  In a train, few people will notice the "issues" anyway.

Not only that, but if I DID replace the 40 ft single door cars, that would leave all of the other body styles, for which there is no replacement, and they'd be that much more noticeable.  If everything is wrong the same way, nothing stands out.