On30 ET&WNC R.R.

[davefoxx]

Someone does Tweetsie in HOn3.  The last two HOn3 annuals are full of Tweetsie.  Not sure where to find it, though, because an eBay search comes up very thin.

I'm not scratchbuilding or even kitbashing steam locomotives in any scale, so, at this time, it's On30 or no go, unless some manufacturer comes out with something in HOn3.  I do like my On30 ten wheelers.  I may just have to step back and do a minimal roundy-round, which will save a lot of space in the layout room for the N scale layout.  Maybe an 6' or 8' long LDE of the section in the Doe River Gorge with the covered deck bridge and a tunnel.  That plus two double-track return loops for staging and voila!  Just have to figure out how to shoehorn that in.

DFF

[Dave V]

Brass Tweetsie tenwheelers do exist in HOn3.  Just pricey and out of stock, LOL:

https://www.brasstrains.com/classic/Product/Detail/040268/HOn3-Brass-Train-Trooper-ET-WNC-Tweetsie-4-6-0-Steam-14

But I agree with you.  Go where the sound/DCC equipped RTR engines are.  If that means a smaller layout, then that's the price of admission.  Or...  Put the N scale under the On30 layout.  These were all the thought exercises I had to go through before we bought the new house, as I would not have had room for the RGS and the PRR/CMRy.

That, of course, is the other option...  Buy a bigger house.   

[p51]

As for those Train and Trooper HOn3 ten-wheelers, I've been in touch with the guy who's ET&WNC layout was in the last HOn3 annual. He said those things run terribly, and though he owns at least one, he never runs it on op sessions.
I was disappointed to hear that, but probably not nearly as those who paid a small fortune for the retail price of one of those.
As for the Bachmann On30 ten-wheelers, they're excellent running locos, good representations of the ET&WNC locos, and excellent values as they don't cost all that much.

[nuno81291]

Agree with Dr. Dave... having small mechanisms to work on took the joy out of N (at least in terms of a large layout) so I moved to HO. Wide availability of what I liked was a plus, doing less in the same space forced me to focus the scope of my layout. Sure I have room for some N dioramas or even a decent size shelf layout underneath my HO but a year into the HO layout I hardly touch the N and constantly think about what some of it could recoop in hobby expenses. planning for two layouts that can coexist I think is important, specially if you are like me and have such varied interests.

[davefoxx]

Brass Tweetsie tenwheelers do exist in HOn3.  Just pricey and out of stock, LOL:

https://www.brasstrains.com/classic/Product/Detail/040268/HOn3-Brass-Train-Trooper-ET-WNC-Tweetsie-4-6-0-Steam-14

But I agree with you.  Go where the sound/DCC equipped RTR engines are.  If that means a smaller layout, then that's the price of admission.  Or...  Put the N scale under the On30 layout.  These were all the thought exercises I had to go through before we bought the new house, as I would not have had room for the RGS and the PRR/CMRy.

That, of course, is the other option...  Buy a bigger house.   

Whew!  You aren't kidding about the price of that HOn3 locomotive!  For $795.00, I could buy six (yes, six!) Bachmann On30 ten wheelers with DCC and sound, based on the price that I just paid (with shipping) for No. 12.  I sure am glad that @p51 was here to make sure that I didn't do anything stupid by dropping that amount of coin (assuming one was available) for a pretty locomotive that runs poorly.

DFF

[Ed Kapuscinski]

There wasn't much changed:

Good lord, that is a MESS. That's not a model of a railroad, it's exactly what it depicts, a model of a cartoon.

There's almost no separation between anything. Tracks on top of tracks, on top of tracks. Wow. Just wow.

[Dave V]

Stacked trackage wasn't that unusual in parts of Colorado served by multiple railroads (Leadville, Cripple Creek, Aspen, etc.) but I agree with @Ed Kapuscinski that it doesn't quite do justice to the loneliness of the Tweetsie.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Stacked trackage wasn't that unusual in parts of Colorado served by multiple railroads (Leadville, Cripple Creek, Aspen, etc.) but I agree with @Ed Kapuscinski that it doesn't quite do justice to the loneliness of the Tweetsie.

Stacked trackage is one thing, but that's like, Grand Central Station NYC density. There is no room for anything to breathe in the plan.

[Dave V]

Stacked trackage is one thing, but that's like, Grand Central Station NYC density. There is no room for anything to breathe in the plan.

Remember, though, that the point of that plan was to attempt to do a full G scale layout in a single bedroom.  As was discussed earlier, it missed that mark too.

[p51]

Whew!  You aren't kidding about the price of that HOn3 locomotive!  For $795.00, I could buy six (yes, six!) Bachmann On30 ten wheelers with DCC and sound, based on the price that I just paid (with shipping) for No. 12.  I sure am glad that @p51 was here to make sure that I didn't do anything stupid by dropping that amount of coin (assuming one was available) for a pretty locomotive that runs poorly.

In all fairness, I wouldn't have stopped you as I just found this forum recently. But I'm glad you didn't make that purchase!
My info comes from Dean Smith (who built the amazing HOn3 ET&WNC Vida Division, which is in the 2016 HOn3 Annual). He model the ET in 1925 and the ten-wheelers would factor a lot into that. Instead of buying the Train and Trooper brass locos, he instead kitbashed other locos. These HOn3 ten-wheelers, according to Dean, are more like the old-school HO brass locos... Pretty, way too expensive, and don't run worth a darn. 
The HO scale ET&WNC layout at the George L. Carter Railroad Museum in Johnson City uses at least one of these as the HOn3 Annual articles on that layout show them being used. I have no idea if that means they were staged there just for the photos, or if someone at that fine club managed to rebuild them for better operation (which is something people often had to do with brass back in the day). But out of the box, they’re pretty but don’t work well. As I’ve been told, there’s no place to stuff a DCC receiver or a sound unit. So, I clearly agree that the Bachmann On30 ones are clearly the best option as On30 isn’t that big, they’re an amazing value for what you pay for one (especially from mail order) and they run like Swiss watches.

[Scottl]

Back to the matter at hand.  @davefoxx I would consider the bent up layout further to avoid the duckunder, even if you are not too worried about it at this stage.  I thought the same way and now realize how confining if feels to be in the pit.  Operationally, you might find that the cockpit loop will get boring fast.  There are many ways to scenic the bent loop to be attractive in terms of track density, operations, and the feel of the prototype while still giving you a free space to move around and out if you wish.  It is just my opinion of course, but I wonder if you have a sense of the pros and cons of the two concepts?

[Dave V]

Back to the matter at hand.  @davefoxx I would consider the bent up layout further to avoid the duckunder, even if you are not too worried about it at this stage.  I thought the same way and now realize how confining if feels to be in the pit.  Operationally, you might find that the cockpit loop will get boring fast.  There are many ways to scenic the bent loop to be attractive in terms of track density, operations, and the feel of the prototype while still giving you a free space to move around and out if you wish.  It is just my opinion of course, but I wonder if you have a sense of the pros and cons of the two concepts?

Other than a longer run (on much tighter curves) I'm curious as to what operational advantages the folded loop has over the cockpit?

[davefoxx]

Well, this is the closest that I've come to something that makes me happy.  This attempt puts the On30 layout in the other end of the room.  The black area at bottom right is a walled off area.  The rectangle represents the other walls of the room, and the entry door is at bottom left.  The N scale layout would now have to go at the left end of the room.  Thoughts?



DFF

[nuno81291]

Well, this is the closest that I've come to something that makes me happy.  This attempt puts the On30 layout in the other end of the room.  The black area at bottom right is a walled off area.  The rectangle represents the other walls of the room, and the entry door is at bottom left.  The N scale layout would now have to go at the left end of the room.  Thoughts?



DFF

I really like it. Seems you have room for both layouts comfortably... care to sketch the n scale footprint relative to it? What is the long siding on the top? Staging? Not too familiar with the locale or what you will depict scenically...perhaps some building/road outlines to get a feel for it. I kind of like the cockpit style so you don't have to scenic tight turnarounds.. I like the track plan but perhaps would find a way to include staging? Getting an idea for how you would scenic it I think is make or break. Those turnarounds aren't horrible for HO... but for O scale scenery it may look tight pending what you model...Drooling for on30  

[p51]

Nice plan, but it looks like you might have issues reach to the far tracks and getting to anything derailing back there.