On30 ET&WNC R.R.

[Dave V]

Mucho better.

[OldEastRR]

You should consider turning the tail of the wye around so it sticks into the center of the room instead of a corner. It would get the main close to the wall and give you easy access to both wye and main. The tail need sit only on a framework wide enough for it and a few inches each way for scenery.  The Johnson City yard would be closer to the wall yet have easy access with a "J" shaped open area of it and one leg of the wye. Pop-up or tight access hatches are real pains if you have to use them, and get worse the older you get.
If you're wanting exactly same trackage as the prototype flip your plan L to R and the wye sticks out of the RH upper corner of the plan.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Ok, time for some critical feedback. First, I'll start that my exposure to the real thing is really just those two videos, but... I've been more critical with less before!

• Are you going to be happy switching Johnson City from the Doe River Gorge? Because as pictured, a locomotive sorting a few cars in the yard is going to be around that second bridge.
• How are you going to scenic the transition from Johnson City to the gorge? There isn't much room for things to breath there.
• Are you going to be able to faithfully capture the size of the gorge in that space allotted for it? Keep in mind, at this scale, things like trees are BIG. Like, 6" diameter and close to a foot tall for something that doesn't look toy like.
• I like that you've got the upper and lower yards at Cranberry. Do you think you'll be able to achieve enough vertical separation there though, given the depth of benchwork?
• How is this going to operate? I'd imagine you start from Johnson City with a train, set out some cars at Elk Park, run to Cranberry, spot the rest of the train, then head back? If that's the case, how is the power getting turned?
• My thoughts are... ditch Johnson City and stretch the rest out more. The essential character of the railroad was it's remoteness, right? Plan the layout to accentuate that.

[p51]

Ok, time for some critical feedback. First, I'll start that my exposure to the real thing is really just those two videos, but... I've been more critical with less before!

• Are you going to be happy switching Johnson City from the Doe River Gorge? Because as pictured, a locomotive sorting a few cars in the yard is going to be around that second bridge.
• How are you going to scenic the transition from Johnson City to the gorge? There isn't much room for things to breath there.
• Are you going to be able to faithfully capture the size of the gorge in that space allotted for it? Keep in mind, at this scale, things like trees are BIG. Like, 6" diameter and close to a foot tall for something that doesn't look toy like.
• I like that you've got the upper and lower yards at Cranberry. Do you think you'll be able to achieve enough vertical separation there though, given the depth of benchwork?
• How is this going to operate? I'd imagine you start from Johnson City with a train, set out some cars at Elk Park, run to Cranberry, spot the rest of the train, then head back? If that's the case, how is the power getting turned?
• My thoughts are... ditch Johnson City and stretch the rest out more. The essential character of the railroad was it's remoteness, right? Plan the layout to accentuate that.

Johnson City was where the engine house was (and still is) for the RR. If you're modeling the mainline before the end of WW2, you really should have it, as it shows that the RR did operate in a 'downtown' area, so I get why he wants to include it.
That said, it's a massive transition from there to Hampton, where the gorge is. If I had a bigger room that I could have modeled the mainline, I'd have started at the depot at Port Rayon in Elizabethton, where the rayon mills were. Passenger trains during WW2 terminated there.
There was also no switching to be done much between Valley Force and Elk Park. Scenic? Yes. Great for operations? Not so much.

[davefoxx]

• Are you going to be happy switching Johnson City from the Doe River Gorge? Because as pictured, a locomotive sorting a few cars in the yard is going to be around that second bridge.

Probably not, but this plan is really just brainstorming in action.  It came to mind after I posted that plan that I would like to move Doe River Gorge to the right side of the plan and move what was quickly-named Elk Park between Johnson City and the gorge, i.e., renamed as Hampton or Elizabethton.  This would also put the Doe River Gorge at the right end of the plan where it's got the most curves.  @p51 makes a great argument for making the area designated as Johnson City in the plan Elizabethton.  I like these ideas and will certainly consider them.

• How are you going to scenic the transition from Johnson City to the gorge? There isn't much room for things to breath there.

See above.

• Are you going to be able to faithfully capture the size of the gorge in that space allotted for it? Keep in mind, at this scale, things like trees are BIG. Like, 6" diameter and close to a foot tall for something that doesn't look toy like.

See above.

• I like that you've got the upper and lower yards at Cranberry. Do you think you'll be able to achieve enough vertical separation there though, given the depth of benchwork?

I think so.  I don't have to model the prototype's actual vertical separation and just getting enough to justify the switchback is good enough for me at this time.

• How is this going to operate? I'd imagine you start from Johnson City with a train, set out some cars at Elk Park, run to Cranberry, spot the rest of the train, then head back? If that's the case, how is the power getting turned?

That's exactly how.  In the video I watched, the locomotive ran backwards heading westbound!  In reality, I'll probably spend most of my time doing the roundy-round.  I don't really expect to do serious ops on this layout.  That's what I'll design the N scale layout for.

• My thoughts are... ditch Johnson City and stretch the rest out more. The essential character of the railroad was it's remoteness, right? Plan the layout to accentuate that.

Great idea.  I was just hoping to find another destination for a freight car or two on the layout.  But, I could very easily remove Elk Park and shift the gorge to the right.  And, I could significantly downsize what is labeled Johnson City, which will give some breathing room between it and the next town down the line.  That also minimizes the layout taking up so much floor space in that corner of the room.

I have no problem further tweaking the plan or even starting over.  Also, I'm still not necessarily sold on the idea of a room-sized On30 layout, but I really don't see any other way around it to make it worthwhile.

Thanks,
DFF

[davefoxx]

You should consider turning the tail of the wye around so it sticks into the center of the room instead of a corner. It would get the main close to the wall and give you easy access to both wye and main. The tail need sit only on a framework wide enough for it and a few inches each way for scenery.  The Johnson City yard would be closer to the wall yet have easy access with a "J" shaped open area of it and one leg of the wye. Pop-up or tight access hatches are real pains if you have to use them, and get worse the older you get.
If you're wanting exactly same trackage as the prototype flip your plan L to R and the wye sticks out of the RH upper corner of the plan.

@OldEastRR,

No, I really want to keep the center of the room as clear as possible, so I would prefer not to have a tail of a wye project into the aisle.  If you read my previous post, you'll see I already have plans to reduce the area in "Johnson City" or whatever it ends up being called.  Besides, I want (and may need) to keep a pop-up access back in the corner for the water meter and the sewer clean-out.

Thanks,
DFF

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I figured this was very much a rough draft!

I'm glad you're honing in on the "purpose" of the layout. I feel like, very often, people won't distill a vision for what they're doing, and you end up with a mess that doesn't serve any masters well.

Since you're not really going for ops, it means you can ignore the pretense of a lot of it. You don't need a yard in Johnson City... hell, you probably don't even need the wye!

I can see the existence of the stuff in Cranberry as all you need to scratch the ops itch. Stage a train on the main, then, once you get there, sort out and spot some cars, then go back on your merry way! In that case, all other track is just there as scenery.

Now, the next important question... how are you going to keep all of the static grass you need to plant on the tracks themselves out of the mechanicals of your locomotives?

[davefoxx]

Since you're not really going for ops, it means you can ignore the pretense of a lot of it. You don't need a yard in Johnson City... hell, you probably don't even need the wye!

I like the idea of a wye, so I can turn equipment without having to handle it.  You'd be surprised by how much an On30 locomotive weighs.  It's much better on the fine details if I keep my paws off!

I can see the existence of the stuff in Cranberry as all you need to scratch the ops itch. Stage a train on the main, then, once you get there, sort out and spot some cars, then go back on your merry way! In that case, all other track is just there as scenery.

Yep, just enough to mix it up and swap locomotives or a freight train for a passenger or mixed train.  Casual switching to keep it interesting.

Now, the next important question... how are you going to keep all of the static grass you need to plant on the tracks themselves out of the mechanicals of your locomotives?

A sh!tload of glue. 

Also, you know what I figured out?  Look at the videos.  No obvious kudzu.  Think about it.  Kudzu was cultivated in the U.S. in the 1930s and 1940s to prevent erosion.  It doesn't seem to be present yet in Tweetsie Country in 1942 (the year I will model).  D'oh!

DFF

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Also, you know what I figured out?  Look at the videos.  No obvious kudzu.  Think about it.  Kudzu was cultivated in the U.S. in the 1930s and 1940s to prevent erosion.  It doesn't seem to be present yet in Tweetsie Country in 1942 (the year I will model).  D'oh!

Oh no!!! You and no kudzu is like me having a treeless layout!

[p51]

Also, you know what I figured out?  Look at the videos.  No obvious kudzu.  Think about it.  Kudzu was cultivated in the U.S. in the 1930s and 1940s to prevent erosion.  It doesn't seem to be present yet in Tweetsie Country in 1942 (the year I will model).  D'oh!

I checked with my folks and they confirmed what I remember form all the years of going up there to visit family; Kudzu apparently was never planted in that region.
That said, there are (and were in the 40s) still plenty of other vines and bushes in the area, though.

[John]

Probably not, but this plan is really just brainstorming in action. 
DFF

then the only real answer is .. make the ON2 a roundy roundy, and build the layout in HON3   [/list]

[davefoxx]

If only HOn3 was even a feasible option for me.  Sigh.

DFF

[Dave V]

If only HOn3 was even a feasible option for me.  Sigh.

DFF

It is....if you model D&RGW/RGS.  Otherwise it's crappy brass and ancient kits.

You should consider turning the tail of the wye around so it sticks into the center of the room instead of a corner. It would get the main close to the wall and give you easy access to both wye and main. The tail need sit only on a framework wide enough for it and a few inches each way for scenery.  The Johnson City yard would be closer to the wall yet have easy access with a "J" shaped open area of it and one leg of the wye. Pop-up or tight access hatches are real pains if you have to use them, and get worse the older you get.
If you're wanting exactly same trackage as the prototype flip your plan L to R and the wye sticks out of the RH upper corner of the plan.

From a practical standpoint, though, would he be accessing the tail of the wye more, or the yard?  I would assume the latter, and I'd put toward the rear that which will need to be accessed/cleaned less frequently (wow, there's a joke in there somewhere...). 

[p51]

Are you going to model "downtown" Elk Park? Might be tough on a curve. Maybe modeling Roan Mountain in that same spot might be easier and you could include the iconic "SB Wood" store near the depot:

[casmmr]

I have a question that I hope does not detract from the layout planning, how do the Bachmann engines run?  I had nothing but trouble with the 2 Bachman engines I had, dash8 40 B or C, cannot remember which, first Spectrum engines released back in the mid to late 90"s and then I tried the Bachmann doddle bug, again no luck, ran badly then stopped  running.  I have not brought Bachmann since and have been telling anyone who asks to stay away.  Again how do their On3 engines run over time?  thanks, Craig