NKP-ish

[DeltaBravo]

Benchwork is going up!
Here's one end (over my workbench):
(Attachment Link)

And here's the opposite side (with wildlife):
(Attachment Link)

George

George is going to have a good time batting around random rolling stock. I use big loops of aluminum foil on the front of my layout to keep the cats off of it.. They only jumped up one time and when they landed on the foil they jumped right down. For some reason they hate stepping on foil. The challenge is remembering to take it off before I power up the layout.

[nickelplate759]

George is going to have a good time batting around random rolling stock. I use big loops of aluminum foil on the front of my layout to keep the cats off of it.. They only jumped up one time and when they landed on the foil they jumped right down. For some reason they hate stepping on foil. The challenge is remembering to take it off before I power up the layout.

Actually, I'm George.  The creature in the photo is properly addressed as "Her Most Royal and Feline Majesty".
That said, there are days when I would have a good time batting around random rolling stock!

George

[nickelplate759]

If those are hidden staging yards under the branch up against the back wall you are heading for a world of heartache operation. That is, if everything in the drawing in faint lines is lower level and the heavy lines are upper level? If so how does that work out for the complex of track in the upper right corner?
As to that area, no need for a runaround track there since all the switches are facing points. Delete that and you save 2 switches and make it a single track branch the whole length.
What you have here looks like a simple oval as a main, stretched out, with a provision to become a figure 8 by using a crossing in the center. That allows you to use either loop end as a reversing loop. At least how I read the plan.  And the branch doesn't come out of the crossing/junction, but splits off one main, never enters the junction, but swings away from it?
I don't know ... having industrial area trackage sticking into a busy mainline junction sounds a little dangerous for a real railroad. But if you like complicated switching situations then it seems to fit the bill. It's your model, after all.

Well, I'm finally getting back to this (slight detour for rotator cuff repair).  I've thought about this a bit in the meantime.  I understand the issues of hidden, hard-to-reach staging, at least intellectually.  I've tweaked the design a bit so that except for a couple of crossing points the upper branch is NOT over the staging any more - only scenery/buildings, which I can make removable or even omit in some places.     Do you think that's enough?
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[MichaelWinicki]

Well, I'm finally getting back to this (slight detour for rotator cuff repair).  I've thought about this a bit in the meantime.  I understand the issues of hidden, hard-to-reach staging, at least intellectually.  I've tweaked the design a bit so that except for a couple of crossing points the upper branch is NOT over the staging any more - only scenery/buildings, which I can make removable or even omit in some places.     Do you think that's enough?

Yeah, I think it's enough.  I have a similar setup (having to remove some scenery/buildings to access some hidden trackage (if necessary) and it works just fine!

You've got a nice operating plan... Should provide for a lot of interesting operation.

[nickelplate759]

Here it is again with the Branch highlighted in blue.  The Branch operates as point to point - from the hidden storage yard at the top of the image to the interchange directly above it.
The main operates as a loop, with reversing loops built in.

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So here's my next dilemma - For DCC, where should  I put the auto-reversing section or sections?   I've read that the reversing section should be big enough to hold an entire train, but would that mean trains would have to be very short?

[nickelplate759]

Next part - blue foam!

I'm putting 2" blue foam over a wood framework.  Last time I used 1/4" plywood under the foam, but this time I'm leaving out the plywood.  The structure is plenty rigid without it.

I've noticed that the foam (Dow "Scoreboard") isn't perfectly flat - there's a slight bow to the sheet.  I can push it down flat with my hand, but obviously I don't want it bowing up after I've laid track etc.    I'm looking for experience with different techniques holding it down:

1. Adhesive (like Liquid Nails Projects) - this would be applied to the top of the joist, then the foam would be weighted until the glue set.

2. Mechanical fasteners - something like a 3" screw with a fender washer, screwed down from the top through the foam and into the joist.

3.  Something I haven't thought of yet?

George

[C855B]

I heartily recommend Gorilla Construction Adhesive. It's not the regular polyurethane Gorilla Glue. I use it on my layout, constructed of pink foam on steel studs. Easy to use, sticks great, doesn't attack the foam, and when cured has a rubbery consistency that I believe helps (...maybe a little...) with sound isolation.

Instructions say 24 hour cure time, so I leave the weights on it (in my case, full cans of paint) for the recommended time, although I'm confident I could cut that wait time in half without ill effects.

[nickelplate759]

Weighting down blue foam with whatever was handy!
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By the way, a shout out to whomever recommended  the special Festool saber-saw blades (that look a bit like bread knives).  They're terrific!

[nickelplate759]

This weekend I printed out the plan full size (I'm using SCARM), taped together lots of pieces of paper, and spread it out over the blue foam base.
It fits!

A few things struck me...
1. It's not as dense as I had feared, but..
2. The yard area and engine terminal dominates the layout more than I had expected.

edit -
After looking at it for a day full size,  I'm refining my impressions.  It is a little too busy.  I'm thinking about simplifying a bit, and the 10-stall roundhouse is just too much. I'm thinking 6 stalls or so would be more like it.

Funny how seeing things full size gives a different impression.

edit - added a picture of the printout in place

[OldEastRR]

You might even consider a 4-stall house. Roundhouses with lots of stalls usually are found at big yards. Or at a division point with lots of helper service. They can also be part of very large engine maintenance and rebuild facilities. With this small yard it could even be a 3-stall. And you could then scale down the servicing facilities, using only 2 tracks (inbound/outbound) with all the services on one. This would scale down the size of the structures (no need for a 200T coaling tower) and give you more yard tracks. If you plan on doing yard switching as part of ops, you should think about getting a yard lead in there somewhere.

[nickelplate759]

After considering Old East's suggestions, here's a revision simplifying yard and engine terminal area.
One less roundhouse lead, less (but longer) roundhouse stalls, the yard shifted a little to the right into the space feed up by the smaller roundhouse and the #5 switches in the yard changed to #7.  Thanks for the suggestions.

There is a yard lead (letter A) - it doubles as part of the lower reverse loop, but I don't intend it to be use for a loop very often -mostly it will be the lead, and the loop is also a siding - there will be a large industrial building to hide some of the track behind it.
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[davefoxx]

I don't know, George.  I think that there's too much track and not enough negative space, e.g., room for scenery.  When there's so much track, it doesn't feel like the trains are traveling any distance, but rather puttering around the same yard.  In the recent N versus HO debate, someone mentioned that an advantage of N scale is the scenery to track ratio.  I fear that this track plan misses on that count.  Sorry to be a Debbie Downer.

DFF

[nickelplate759]

Dave - I have the same concern.  That's why I printed it out full size, and have been paring some things back.  Still working on that...   
Thanks for sharing your opinions - they all help!

[OldEastRR]

As for crowding -- if you fill all the space with factories and other industrial area structures, access roads, parking lots, fences, etc then it should overpower the trackwork so it does indeed look real. Railroad industrial districts were laced with tracks, small yards, complicated switchwork, etc. There was a lot of stuff -- both railroad and industry-related -- crammed into every available space. You could make a monstrous industry that fills the inside of the upper RH loop, with all three tracks serving different parts of it with different car types. And make another complex of industrial buildings outside the other loop, with the buildings filling the space from one corner to the other and close up against the main. Don't need to have a spur to it. 4-5 story industrial buildings looming alongside a busy mainline looks great. And adds to the idea that there has to be lots of track in this area, because so many places are served by rail. 
There are other ways to use the generous track to layout space ratio of N scale than mountain scenes or open flat country. A layout set in the dense heart of an industrial area can look just as good.  I designed a 14'x2.5' section of a N layout as a steel mill complex for another guy's layout, and tho it was crammed with track and huge steel mill structures, it didn't seem toylike.

[Rossford Yard]

How did I miss this thread?

Very nice.  Not sure of your progress, or need for more opinions, but I am in the less track, more scenery camp.  In the end, just as even the biggest continuous run layout is just a glorified roundy roundy, in the end, switching 14 or 16 industries is probably about the same amount of enjoyment, unless there is some specific challenge to each one to make it unique.

I am guessing you are now at the track laying stage? LOL