Locomotives with Molded-In Details or Pre-Drilled to Add Details?

[mu26aeh]

There have been no official announcements from @scaletrains either on here (including the show report thread) or on the facebook thread you linked to...

As far as I know no prototype has been confirmed or denied.

Edit: it is interesting how overwhelming the responce on Facebook for separately applied details is however...

Check out some of the comments [ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[Missaberoad]

My mistake.... Clearly not up to date with facebook or i couldnt see everything without logging in

[ntrakia]

sorry but am not really familiar with the 3' rule--it's 2' or less for me with a walk-around layout.  I don't take my more detailed trains to run on my ntrak layout--I leave the good stuff at home.  so I have 2 sets of equipment basically:  basic stuff for ntrak and good stuff for at home.   I want detailed equipment not toy train stuff.  I am not into operations so my stuff at home gets less handling.  I really don't care to try to remove molded on detail AND then have to touch up the finish and the paint.  a pain for sure. I am 73 and my eyes are fine for running trains and for finer modeling work that is what the optivisor and fine pointed tweezers are for.  no problem.

[peteski]

Edit: it is interesting how overwhelming the responce on Facebook for separately applied details is however...

What does that mean?  You mean the Rivet-counter version, operator with dimples, or operator with pre-drilled holes?  I don't do FB.

[Missaberoad]

What does that mean?  You mean the Rivet-counter version, operator with dimples, or operator with pre-drilled holes?  I don't do FB.

He posed the same question in the linked thread as he did here, and the majority of responces were for user applied with predrilled holes (dimples weren't part of the question)

Just thought it was interesting since many say we're not representitive here.

Mind you i don't "do" facebook either so perhaps they are modeling "elites" aswell...

[daniel_leavitt2000]

I really wish it was an SD40-2. I can't really think of an engine we need more.

Any possibility of the following?
U28B
U30B
U33/36B
U28C
U30C
U33/36C
GP30
GP35
GP50
SD38
SD40
SD45

I am really pulling for a U-boat. Once the mechanism and cab are done, you can cover all the B or C series with multiple hood variations. As a Conrail modeler, this would be killer (and a wallet killer).

An updated scale hood GP or SD series would be welcome as well, but not nearly as needed.

You could go the esoteric route: U50, C855 and all those monsters. But I think this would really annoy anyone other than UP modelers.

Any chance of seeing modern commuter cars? Comet II, Comet III, Kawasaki, really would like something I can run in Boston (or NYC, or NJ, or Quebec, or Hartford, or Philly...).

And please let one of those freight cars be a 19K gallon corn syrup tank. I need tons - TONS of Staley cars.

[jagged ben]

Hmm, a U33/36C is definitely a gap to be filled.  Of course one can always hope for a GP40X, too.   

[James Costello]

An upgraded SD40T-2 would be most welcome... 

[Roger Holmes]

I held the Big Blow in my hand at Indy and mentioned to Shane my pre-convention concerns after seeing photos of the nose grab irons.  Holding the actual N scale model and looking at it with 65 year old eyes (and bi-focals), I was very pleased with what I saw and went home and placed a pre-order.  What I saw there was what it will look like on my layout and not enlarged in a photo.  No offense meant to the macro photo takers.  As I write this I am sitting in my office beneath a picture frame  with a two-page centerfold that I had published in N Railroading which features an Atlas RS1 that I custom painted in Milwaukee Road Orange/Black and its molded on grab irons look just fine IMHO.

I think the answer to the molded on detail question can be found in the names for the two product lines. Operator implies a lower cost ready to operate model.  Rivet Counter will please all of the folks who want the freestanding detail and, don't forget, also provides road name specific versions of cabs, fuel tanks, fans, etc. 

I am basing my response on the assumption that giving the Operator version pre-drilled or dimpled holes means that there will be no molded on detail.  Railwire modelers are a cut above the average N scale hobbyist when it comes to building skills and expectations.  Your average N scaler won't add the detail parts and if the Operator version is pre-drilled or dimpled then they will have a naked model with no detail.

Save the freestanding details for the discerning Rivet Counters and satisfy the mass market with molded on details in the operator line.

[coosvalley]

and someone quoted it saying they hoped it was a CF7 .  I remember the CF7 part because it was written in really small font and CF7 was repeated quite a few times.
https://www.facebook.com/scaletrains/posts/1144044642284711

That was me a few pages ago(in this thread), but it was just a wish, and I have NO knowledge of what it will be, or if it is a SD40-2 or not...

Personally I am amazed that an n scale SD-26 was produced before a CF-7....The latter having spread to most corners of the country, wearing lots of paint schemes, and many are still running...The SD-26 only had 3 options for prototypical paint schemes, and today none exist.......

OK,sorry for the thread drift,  back to the grab iron discussion!

Railwire modelers are a cut above the average N scale hobbyist when it comes to building skills and expectations.

I disagree with this assumption because......

it is interesting how overwhelming the responce on Facebook for separately applied details is however...

[Missaberoad]

Personally I am amazed that an n scale SD-26 was produced before a CF-7....The latter having spread to most corners of the country, wearing lots of paint schemes, and many are still running...The SD-26 only had 3 options for prototypical paint schemes, and today none exist.......

OK,sorry for the thread drift,  back to the grab iron discussion!

To take the drift just a little bit further. The main issue with the CF7 is the amazing amount of variation there was between individual locomotives.
It would be an incredible undertaking to make an accurate run of them. I'm sure it will happen and perhaps @scaletrains is the company to take the challenge.
As an example of the difficulty involved, I would love to model Red River Valley & Western's fleet of CF7's  They had 10 units with at least 4 major "shell" variations represented.

The SD26 had the advantage that the SD24 provided the mechanism and a great deal of the research/tooling design already. they simply had to expand upon that.

To bring it back on subject The CF7 would be an amazing showcase for separately applied wire grabs

[coosvalley]

To take the drift just a little bit further. The main issue with the CF7 is the amazing amount of variation there was between individual locomotives.
It would be an incredible undertaking to make an accurate run of them. I'm sure it will happen and perhaps @scaletrains is the company to take the challenge.
As an example of the difficulty involved, I would love to model Red River Valley & Western's fleet of CF7's  They had 10 units with at least 4 major "shell" variations represented.

The SD26 had the advantage that the SD24 provided the mechanism and a great deal of the research/tooling design already. they simply had to expand upon that.

To bring it back on subject The CF7 would be an amazing showcase for separately applied wire grabs

More thread drift...
Forgive my ignorance, but, besides cab variations, what were the major differences in CF7s?..Would just the cab variations (like Athearn HO) make you happy?.....For me, that would be OK, but I don't know the other differences!

I do realize that we got the SD26 as part of the SD24's ,the mechanism being the same . But then I have to wonder why no U28/30/33/36Bs, being they already make the mechanism, and there are other "could be made with existing mech" locos too...The SD26 was such a niche loco, maybe because it says Santa Fe(big seller) on it?...Guess what, CF7s say Santa Fe on them too!(hint for MFR's)...I know, we all want "our" loco that hasn't been made yet.....But this one seems like a hit waiting to happen..

[Missaberoad]

Forgive my ignorance if I miss anything lol...  (I'm sure Randy can school me on the subject)

4 different cab variations (2 different window arrangements each on the rounded and angled cabs)
2 different frame variations (open and boxed)
2 different long hoods (2 stack vs 4 stack) (3 if you include the prototype with dynamic brakes)

With there being overlap of all of these changes, the different variations become overwhelming, and that is without factoring in smaller details like horns, antennas, AC, grab irons etc. Then we can factor the many changes made by the subsequent owners. 

That being said you could make a model with a boxed frame, 2 or 3 cabs and a 2 stack long hood (with add on castings for 4 stack models) and make nearly everyone happy. In fact If they are still available when I have the funds I will order a few of Randy's shells and call it a day

I strongly agree with you that a CF7 would be a success, I just hope whoever does it does it justice...

I also agree that a big part of the SD26 was likely the ATSF on the side, another factor may be that there was an amazing article with beautiful photography in MR about kitbashing one in HO in the 2000's. I would assume that article caused interest in that model (and likely requests) to swell. It certainly made me want one...

[coosvalley]

Good stuff to know..Thanks!

[ednadolski]

Your average N scaler won't add the detail parts and if the Operator version is pre-drilled or dimpled then they will have a naked model with no detail.

A I mentioned previously I'm not sure I understand the last part of that claim.   Why think of a model as 'naked', if it does not have parts that most folks would not see under normal use?

Seems to me that this is the kind of perception that has arisen over time from model manufacturers trying to promote their products as "highly detailed" -- even tho historically that meant that the "details" actually had to be made oversized so that buyers would notice them.  The practice became entrenched, and so continues -- something of a self-fulfilling (or perhaps self-perpetuating) prophecy 

JMHO, there is nothing realistic or prototypical about molded-on parts, so I believe that FVM deserves kudos for going on principle in that regard.  I can't recall ever hearing of anyone not buying the FVM models because they look "naked" without molded-on parts. 

Ed