Kato Amfleet consist question- how many cars?

[u18b]

Unfortunately doe to the laws of physics, making low-friction inside-bearing tucks in N scale is pretty much unrealistic.

Yes, tiny ball-bearings seem like a good solution but that would make the car unrealistically expensive. I also hope that those bearings will be very well-shielded as even the tiniest spec of ballast in the races will lock the bearing up.  Also using ball-bearing precludes lighting the car using track power (per the information Max Magliaro posted in his steam loco build thread). Ball bearings do not conduct electricity well. You could add electric wheel-wipers but they you are again increasing friction.

Yes, Kato Amfleets are (not surprisingly) fabulous models, but the inside bearing trucks will remain a problem.  While you are at it, mention that the wheel faces on those trucks are totally wrong. Not only the have somewhat wrong profile, they also molded holes/dimples in them where I have never seen anything like that on the 1:1 wheels.  That is one thing that Kato messed up.

All good points.

But wait for the movie.   

[u18b]

Stock Kato F40PH cannot pull THREE Amfleet cars.  It can only pull two.

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After installing bearings and new wheelsets, now it can pull TEN.

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Amfleet--- the way it was meant to be.

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[craigolio1]

I'm interested in these new bearings and wheel sets. Can you offer more detail?

Craig

[peteski]

Well, that is great but I rather dump Bachmann and get Kato Amfleets. They are so much nicer and the price is not that much higher.  Since now Kato makes both types of Amflleets, there is no reason to continue using Bachmann.

[u18b]

I'm interested in these new bearings and wheel sets. Can you offer more detail?

Craig

I don't want to post all of the article here (publishers discourage that).

But in general:

Kato Amfleet -
typical auction price range  16.99-22.00 plus shipping.
Kato lighting kits- ~ 8 bucks.
investment per car = about 25 - 30 bucks.
F40PH can pull about 5 or 6?


Bachmann Amfleet latest (third version).
auction prices 20-25  (Trainworld was dumping them for 17 bucks a while back- I picked up several)
lighting kit- free!  comes with car!
Kato Wheel sets for Amfleet inside bearings, 1 pack per car- $5  part number  932045
1x3x1 mm micro bearings, 100 for ~18 bucks off auction site, direct from China.  Quality may not be as good as expensive bearings, but my results were good.
Investment per car- ~25-30 bucks +plus some effort.  (my personal investment was about $21 per car.
F40PH can pull about 10.

By now, you can probably figure out that you need a 3mm round file to open up the holes to accept the bearings.  The Kato shaft just happens to be 1 mm.  Bearing fit like they were made for it.

Is it worth it?  Depends on your preference.

Obviously, I have waited too late for completing this project, since Kato now makes the same car as Bachmann.

If I had done this two years ago, the Kato and Bachmann cars would have been different.

I like, and own both.  But I REALLY like a 10 car train.

Yes, there is some technique, and I did destroy two truck frame as I perfected my method.
But the results were worth it to me.


Since there are people out there like some on this board who hate the Bachmann cars in favor of Kato, maybe you can pick some up cheap.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Ooh, or for those that see Bachmann cars as a sunk cost.

I'm gonna have to try this.

[nickelplate759]

Ooh, or for those that see Bachmann cars as a sunk cost.

I'm gonna have to try this.

Exactly- I have 6 or 7 Bachmann cars already.   Either I upgrade them or junk them.  Upgrade is more fun.

George

[peteski]

Ron, so the ball bearings conduct electricity well enough to power the car lighting?  No flicker?

While the new Bachmann Amfleets were a large improvement over the old ones, they still don't even come close to the fidelity and better details of Kato's Amfleets.  While it might be fun for some to update the Bachmanns, to me that is not something I want to spend my hobby time on.  I also don't like the lighting units in Bachmann cars and I would have to replace them with white LEDs which have a good color approximating fluorescent lights.  But that's just me. 

[u18b]

Ron, so the ball bearings conduct electricity well enough to power the car lighting?  No flicker?

While the new Bachmann Amfleets were a large improvement over the old ones, they still don't even come close to the fidelity and better details of Kato's Amfleets.  While it might be fun for some to update the Bachmanns, to me that is not something I want to spend my hobby time on.  I also don't like the lighting units in Bachmann cars and I would have to replace them with white LEDs which have a good color approximating fluorescent lights.  But that's just me. 

Yes, you can see for yourself in the video.  I can't speak for Max's experience with a loco.  But these do pretty well.   There is a little bit of flicker-- but sometimes it has more to do with the inherent inaccuracies of kitbashing.  Meaning, I'm using a 3 mm file to open up the Bachmann holes.  But what if the holes are not perfectly identically placed?  Then the truck will not ride as perfectly on the rails.  I know this is the case in the Acela car near the end.

I think these Bachmann cars and their lighting definitely work best on DCC since the track is at full power all the time.
And yeah... they are a bit yellowish.

Your points about Kato cars are all true.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I feel like there's also a difference between passenger car lighting and locomotive power. If the lights flicker for a second, it doesn't matter, the train keeps moving and they come back on.

If the locomotive stops, well. Bonetown.

[Dave V]

I took the electrical contacts off mine so it rolls freely.  I don't care about passenger car lighting.  In the vid I posted the last car is a Bachmann Am-can...and it's dark.

[nscaler711]

Ok so where one get those bearings??
Like I've said, I've got 5 bmann Amfleets to upgrade...
As for Kato VS Bmann, both are nice, but the whole working diaphrams just kinda sell it for me with Bmann..
 had no issues when I body mounted the couplers either, but I do run 17.5" minimum curves so... That helps...

[peteski]

but the whole working diaphrams just kinda sell it for me with Bmann..

Funny, those gimmicky way-out-of-scale diaphragms on the Bachmann cars are one the turnoffs for me. 

[u18b]

Ok so where one get those bearings??
Like I've said, I've got 5 bmann Amfleets to upgrade...
As for Kato VS Bmann, both are nice, but the whole working diaphrams just kinda sell it for me with Bmann..
 had no issues when I body mounted the couplers either, but I do run 17.5" minimum curves so... That helps...

CAn't remember if we are forbidden to post ebay links...

But search for (cut and paste):
1x3x1mm 681 micro bearing

I was buy a few at a time.
Finally, I said, what the heck and bought 100.

[Missaberoad]

CAn't remember if we are forbidden to post ebay links...

That's an old Atlas forum Taboo.... Perfectly acceptable here!