PRR Position Light Signal - Chapter 3

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Aren't the bottoms suppose to be silver?

Oh yeah, I forgot. Time to get out my silver sharpie...

[nscaleSPF2]

First of all, thank you all for your kind comments.  Very few can appreciate the work that it took to get the project to this stage.

Hi @nscaleSPF2 , great comeback and an excellent solution!

What size LED are they? 0603?

I have had success with wiring wormholes in the RP, you could replace the mounting brackets with a part that includes the top of the post with cap and a pilot diameter to accept the brass tube and have the wires pass through the RP before entering the tube.  This would also minimize the risk of scratching the magnet wire on the brass tube.

John, these are 0603 LED's.

I very much like the appearance of your concept.  But I think that it may have a couple of issues.  Signal masts by their nature are often placed in exposed locations where they can be accidentally bumped.  Knowing how brittle Shapeway's RP is, it is most likely to break right at the top of the mast.  If that happens, you're screwed.  Also, I will not be able to attach the upper ladder platforms to the mast; at least the ones that I plan to use.

[nscaleSPF2]

As far as price/availability, please understand that I am not in this hobby to make money.  Anything that I may sell will be priced at what it cost me to make.  The pricing of the circuit boards, for example, depends a lot on how many are ordered.

That said, there are a few more hurdles to be overcome:

1. The version of Eagle software that I am using is freeware, and I am legally bound to not sell anything that I make using it.  I have to purchase a commercial version, which costs about $70.  Not a big issue, but it adds to the cost.

2. I will have to find a manufacturer who can actually make the boards per my design.  As I mentioned, the last manufacturer produced boards that required a lot of unnecessary rework.  Don't know how long it will take to find a new supplier.

3. I am guessing that most of you don't possess the skills and/or equipment to solder the LED's and the electrical leads to the boards.  Since I don't plan to spend the rest of my retirement soldering teeny-tiny parts together, I will have to find someone to do this.  I am sure that I can hire someone with these skills; how much this will cost is also unknown at this point.

Are you all beginning to understand why these parts are not already available?  It's more complicated than it seems.

Now then, if there is anyone still reading this, and they really want the circuit board assemblies to go along with the Shapeways lens hoods, send me a PM stating your intentions.  How many, and when.  Any requests for "a couple of hundred when my layout is finished" will be ignored.  Hope you get the point.

[peteski]

Jim,
what inside and outside diameter is the mast?  It looks to be quite small. I'm not sure if 3-D printed mast could be made that small in diameter, have a large enough inside diameter and be robust enough to be placed on a operating layout.

A 3-D printer mast would be fine on a diorama sitting in a glass display case or a some small display layout carefully operated and maintained by a fastidious person, but  feel that on a layout which is operated and cleaned regularly those delicate parts would not survive long.  and replacing/rebuilding a broken mast would be almost as bad as building a new signal.cap

But a fancy 3-D printed cap for the mast would look very nice. And  so would be a 3-D printed base.

Also, placing a single resistor on each head would enable using the metal mast as a common connection, further reducing the number of needed wires.   Or still use the mast for a common connection and add a resistor under the layout on each aspect lead (so 3 resistors per head).

[Dave V]

Aren't the bottoms suppose to be silver?

At least in the transition era, many of these masts were all black.  I keep mine all black.

[nscaleSPF2]

what inside and outside diameter is the mast?  It looks to be quite small.

The outside diameter is 0.049in.  This is 7.8 nscale inches.  Although it looks small, it is about 1in oversize, when compared to the prototype.  Some time ago, Dave Vollmer posted a prototype drawing showing that the PRR used 5 and 6in pipe for the masts.

The i.d. is 0.035in, which is plenty of room for the 4 x 0.004in magnet wires.

A 3-D printer mast would be fine on a diorama sitting in a glass display case or a some small display layout carefully operated and maintained by a fastidious person, but  feel that on a layout which is operated and cleaned regularly those delicate parts would not survive long.  and replacing/rebuilding a broken mast would be almost as bad as building a new signal.cap

I think I said something like that above, Peter.  Maybe not as eloquently as you did.

Also, placing a single resistor on each head would enable using the metal mast as a common connection, further reducing the number of needed wires.   Or still use the mast for a common connection and add a resistor under the layout on each aspect lead (so 3 resistors per head).

I'm not too crazy about this concept, Peter.  Using the mast would require soldering two wires it.  One near the signal head and one near the base.  The solder connections would be visible, and subject to handling damage.  With my soldering skills, I would probably melt the signal head attaching brackets, while I was at it.  No, the 4 magnet wires seem to work just fine, for now.

[CNR5529]

2. I will have to find a manufacturer who can actually make the boards per my design.  As I mentioned, the last manufacturer produced boards that required a lot of unnecessary rework.  Don't know how long it will take to find a new supplier.

Have you spoken with Labo Circuits, in Montreal? http://golabo.com/en/ They specialize in prototyping and smaller batch sizes of PC boards. When I was in university doing a bunch of engineering competitions, they did some stellar work for my team. We printed a number of really convoluted multi layered PC boards and never needed to do any clean up. Of course,they were also donating their machine time to our educational projects, so I cant comment on pricing, but workmanship was always top notch. Might be worth giving them a call.

Kind regards,
Fredrick

[nscaleSPF2]

It's been 3 weeks since I tried to get an idea of how many of you would be interested in purchasing these PRR signal heads, and how many heads would be required.  I got a total of 3 responses.  Two individuals would like to have a total of 24 signal heads.  The third was not sure how many he wanted; it depended on the cost.

I'm sorry, but this response is not sufficient to make me want to find a (good) supplier of the circuit boards, and to find someone to install the LED's and electrical wires.

As far as I am concerned, chapter 3 of this project is closed. 

It's probably just as well; this will save others from the difficult and time consuming process of putting together the signal assemblies.  Each one took me about 4 hours to complete.  Makes me wonder how NJI can sell their signals for only $50 ($40 on the well-known auction site). [ Guests cannot view attachments ] [ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[chicken45]

That looks great!

[Ed Kapuscinski]

It really does.

I'm sorry I wasn't able to commit. There are so many variables about how many I'd want vs price vs effort to install the stuff to make them worth it, etc... I was hoping it'd work out and I'd be able to get onboard later down the road.

And damn, 4 hours? Wow. It looks worth it though.

[towl1996]

As far as I am concerned, chapter 3 of this project is closed. 

I for one am sorry to hear this. It would be a shame to let this die.  You're seriously on to something here. I think without a price it's hard for people to commit to something. What would a "kit" cost? All the leds, brass parts, wire, circuit board, heads, basic instructions, what would this cost? 

[chicken45]

Yeah, it sucks, but I see his point. While I love them and want others to love them and see more of them, it's a a pain in the a$$ to do a run and sell all that stuff.

[unittrain]

Those are stunning signals  I bought some of your targets from shapeways going to use them with my traincat masts, bought leds to attempt making my own.

[Dave V]

I guess I'm in the same boat...  Building the Alkem signals was a challenge, but the price point made it worth it.  Not really knowing how much work these will take plus not knowing the cost per unit made it really difficult for me to commit to any, let alone to a specific number I'd want.  The NJI signals have their warts, but they are fully RTR for a known price point I can budget for.  Besides, for now the Juniata Division is fully signaled.  Until I'm 100% ready for the much-vaunted and perpetually-delayed expansion thereof, I don't know what I'll need.

You've done awesome work here and I really do appreciate it.  This is some of the finest modeling we've seen around here in a while, and destined to be an example of the Railwire's best.  Indeed, that is the very best N scale model of a PRR position light signal I have ever seen.

[Missaberoad]

You've done awesome work here and I really do appreciate it.  This is some of the finest modeling we've seen around here in a while, and destined to be an example of the Railwire's best.  Indeed, that is the very best N scale model of a PRR position light signal I have ever seen.

This QFT...

In fact I would go so far as to say it is among the best models of N scale signals I have ever seen PRR or not. 

Unfortunately not a project I can help support, not something that would be found on the Milwaukee or the Soo in Minnesota...