A free-moN version of the WBTR

[soo]

Howdy all,

Disclaimer: I have posted on other forums to get as much input as I can...

After a thoughtful negotiation with the boss and head honcho,, I can use the garage for a layout space,, YAY!!! I figured I can go with free-moN as I am getting weary of being a lone wolf,, plus guys I know from the DFW metroplex want in on the action.

I plan on using rubbermaid shelving system to provide support for the modules when at home and not at a show. I like the fact that I will have no legs, cept for the ones that are required and needed if and when I take this to a show or meet. 

I am just going to use the brackets to hold the modules, I checked and 1/2" plywood fits in the brackets . So the plan is use a "L" made from 1/2" ply to fit in the bracket. I am also going to use the brackets to make a valance to hold lighting, and storage. Which was one of the selling points to my wife. The brackets come in many lenghts, I am choosing the 16" to support my 18" modules.

This is just a rough idea of what I am shooting for,,, all modules with be 6' x 1-6".



I want to stay with the free moN standards,, because I always build more and more and more modules.

So here are some points that I made when asked questions by a member at another forum I post at.

1. 70's to mid 80's

2. Wisconsin/Minnesota. Thought about either the SOO between Stevens Point and Fond Du Lac. Or in Minnesota, Twin Cities, all the transfers from all the Different RR's. Maybe the Shoreham Hill area. Maybe the New Brighton area with the MNS crossing the SOO.

3. SOO,MILW,CNW,MNS,CRIP,BN,GBW I have motive power for all these.

4. Well the proverbial grain, lots and lots of it. ( covered hoppers). Lumber ( bulkhead, flats, box cars), Warehouses ( boxcar). Fabrication, ( Gons, flats, bulkheads, coil cars) Petro Chemical,,( tanks, Covered Hoppers, and more tank cars. Aggregate to include concrete, sand, rocks/gravel, portland cement ( small covered hoppers, open hoppers, ballast cars, PD3000 covered hoppers) Paper mils, ( tanks, box car, covered hoppers, pulpwood cars) Maybe auto parts,, somewhere for my 50+ autoparts cars to go and come from. Feed and Fertilizer ( covered hoppers) Plastics( more covered hoppers) Maybe some sort of power plant,( open coal hoppers) Also maybe some sort of railcar maintenance facility.All these trains will have cabooses.

In short all and every industries. I just LOVE switching. I thought about transfer runs to and from all the RR's mentioned. Maybe somehow incorporate the Dayton's Bluff area. I know my list is big,, that is the issue I am having. I would like to have interchange yards also for off layout traffic. I also need some sort of diesel facility,, for my 100+ locos

After reading that, He came up with possibly using the Minnesota Commercial RR. It used to be the Minnesota Transfer Railway,, which was was owned by all the RR's in the Twin Cities area. There is a book,, but I found one used paperback copy for 65$,,,wow!! Only 35 pages,, ok who's smoking crack???

So what I asking of forum members is help with a track plan, or any ideas. I plan on building all 6 modules next week,, or maybe this weekend, those are no problem. I just need a track plan,, so I can go to town!!

Thanks for any help in advance.

Adios, Wyatt

[Philip H]

Wyatt,
I like the modules on shelves idea. As long as the shelf brackets are dead level you should be ok. I am confused by your description of the plywood as an "L" - modules are generally done a boxes.

[soo]

Philip,

The L is going to made from 1/2" ply 18" long,, it will fit in between the bracket it's self. Basically making a adjustable bracket. I will be able to run screws through the metal bracket into the wood, to correct any issues with level or elevation.

Am I clear as mud?

Adios Wyatt

[soo]

I have been thinking about doing a set of turnback loops with staging tracks, this what I came up with.

Parallel track centerlines are 1 1/2"



I do see where that one turnout could be bridging the gap,, I can fix when construct these modules,,, I just noticed that.

Comments?

Adios, Wyatt

[soo]

Here is an idea for an offset turnback loop.



And a 3d view



Comments?

Adios Wyatt

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I dig it.

Given your modeling interests, I bet you can find a Chicago area location to scenic that loop as.

Something like http://www.dhke.com/CRJ/union.html, http://www.dhke.com/CRJ/griffith.html, or http://www.dhke.com/CRJ/21street.html.

I mean...

[soo]

Ed,
Thanks for the input. You just gave me some ideas..look at the Dolton junction and either 79th or 75th street area...cant remember which. Very good web site you used..i have it saved.
Thanks again
Wyatt

[Missaberoad]

When you say you love switching what aspect do you want to focus on?
Marshaling/classification, or transfers between railways or Industrial Set outs/Pickups?

With Minnesota commercial you would get a little of everything, and the opportunity to model Soo, BN, CNW, TCW, WC and pretty much anything else that wound up in the Twin cities depending on your era...

The Hiawatha elevators would be a perfect switching LDE With a handful of elevators and a scrap dealer in close proximity

http://www.tc.umn.edu/~rrclubum/mnnr1.htm

/>
Midway yard is vast and hosts Amtrak as well as transfers too and from BN, CP/Soo, UP/CNW, TCW

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=520919&nseq=21
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=460674&nseq=46

The Minnesota commercial has a "Main" line that heads north Crossing both BN lines through Minneapolis and serving many industries (lots of lumber, Paper, steel, hoppers, boxcars) before crossing the Soo/WC at New Brighton... very much worth exploring on Google maps...

Lots of MNNR

The Ford truck plant in Saint Paul was served by the Milwaukee and then the Soo. Lots of Autoracks and boxcars.
It was served by the former Milwaukee road main quite the grade...

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=558119&nseq=0
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=383912&nseq=10
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=382798&nseq=14
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=378777&nseq=15
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=362798&nseq=18
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=305031&nseq=23
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=383912&nseq=10

[Missaberoad]

Another option to keep in mind would be Duluth/Superior. Has your Soo/BN/Milw/CNW mix and lots of switching/scenic opportunities aswell. 

[railnerd]

I can fix when construct these modules,,, I just noticed that.

Comments?

Adios, Wyatt

Wyatt, one "Free-mo nit".  What you are calling "modules" are called "sections" by Free-mo folks.  The entire loop back would be a module.  A module is benchwork and track something that has one or more Free-mo endplate interfaces.  Yeah, it seems picky, but you'd be surprised what kinds of flame-wars show up on other Free-mo lists.

Your idea looks neat and very Similar to the Devil Mtn loop back that MC Fujiwara built for SV Free-moN.

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=25996.msg277424#msg277424

-Dave

[soo]

Dave,

Thanx for the heads up on free mo speak. If mine could look half as good as MC's,, I would be thrilled.

Ryan,

You are the second person to mention the Minnesota Commercial. Now the twin harbors is a good idea also. I need to google earth the twin cities and look for cool stuff like junctions and industries and stuff.

Thanks for the input,, really appreciate it.

Adios , Wyatt

[Rossford Yard]

Just got to rail fan both MSP and Twin Harbors.  I would vote for the MC myself, for more variety.....and a roundhouse that is still in use, probably tight enough to be modeled closely on a small module.....er, section.....

Of course, Wyatt and I will now be bidding against each other for every MC loco that comes up on EBay, thus raising the prices.

[Missaberoad]

I'll start with the caveat that I've only visited the Twin Cities a handful of times and most of my knowledge is from research
so I apologize to anyone more familiar hitting their heads 

Lets start with a map of the Minnesota commercial to give some context, and a wider map of the Twin Cities.

Minneapolis / St Paul can be a little confusing to explore at first but here's a few locations of interest to get you started.

Minnesota Commercial Roundhouse The Amtak Midway station and midway yard are to the north, Hiawatha avenue to the west and Dayton's Bluff to the east.

Hiawatha Ave Elevators be sure to explore north and south. This was a Soo/Milwaukee road branch before it was sold to MNNR

Midway yard and The BNSF main at St Anthony Jct. The BNSF Union yard is to the west (also the former location of CNW east Minneapolis yard) and if you follow the BNSF line it will take you to Northtown yard. Midway is much smaller then it was in the past, once being vast and taking up nearly the entire area.

Just to the north is Park Jct Follow the MNNR line to the north, this is thier main "trunk" line and the majority of their industrial spurs branch off this line. The BNSF line is a secondary main through town.

Following the MNNR to the north we eventually find the Soo/WC Jct at New Brighton, There has always been lots of action here including UP/WC coal trains going down the MNNR (Can someone remember the consignee?)

The Soo/WC line goes west to Shoreham/Northtown and points west.

To the north the MNNR line Splits and goes to serve more industries at Fridley to the the west and the Twin Cities Arsenal (Former ammunition plant to the east) however in recent years the Arsenal has been unused as far as I can tell.

Heading back to Union yard I'll start following the BNSF line to the north.

Mps Jct. Currently the home of Milwaukee 261 this is the location of the former GN roundhouse (sold to CNW after the BN merger)

A little further to the north is University Jct just north from here is the BNSF Northtown yard and to the east is the CP Shoreham intermodal yard (Soo fans cover your eyes)

The Soo mainline crosses over Northtown and the Mississippi to wind up at Camden Jct (hey a turnout on a bridge  didn't we all have a discussion about that) to the South BNSF and CP serve what remains of Minneapolis' downtown milling district.

To the west is Humbolt yard and the Soo line (now ADM) elevator. This is also where the former MNS Interchanged with the Soo (and the current TCW intechanges here). further west is MNS Jct. Glenwood Jct is to the south site of the former MNS yard (is this gone?)

Following the Former MNS to the south We come to the Jct between CP, Progress Rail (to the east) and TCW (to the south)

Switching focus over to Saint Paul, (admitting I'm more familiar with the Minneapolis side)

Daytons Bluff with the former Milwaukee Road and CB&Q yards to the south east and the UP yard to the south (the complexities of the UP system in the twin cities being former CNW, CGW, CRIP and MSTL are beyond my knowledge hopefully someone else can shed some light on this) I will say pretty much anything going through the twin cities passes Dayton's bluff.

to the north is the Former St Paul union depot used by Amtrak until the Midway station opened in the late 1970's

West from here is Fordson Jct. where the former Milwaukee Road "Short line" heads to the northwest to the MNNR Roundhouse, and the Spur to the former Ford assembly plant goes to the southwest.

North of the Union depot is Westminster Jct a very model railroady Jct with tunnels and a wye! the BNSF main goes to the west passing the Minnesota Transportation museum to Union yard, while the former NP (used by CP, BNSF, UP) goes north towards Soo line Jct.

Soo line Jct the former Soo heads north to Cardigan Jct and the former NP heads west to Park Jct. passing the former NP Como shops at Bandana Square

To the north is Cardigan Jct This is where the Soo line/WC came into Minneapolis to the north is lines to the Twin ports and Wisconsin and the line to the west heads to new Brighton/Shoreham.

Far from complete, but this should give you a good start for exploring. Looking forward to some deeper discussion if you chose a location to follow...   

Other good resources would be taking a look at John Hills albums  Lots of Twin cities photos from the last 40 years including exploring industrial trackage.
http://johnhill_3009.rrpicturearchives.net/archiveList.aspx

Also Bob Rivard has a youtube channel with lots of Twin cities action.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0FXIIl1jDJv_e2SZqvy_wQ/feed

[Missaberoad]

Just got to rail fan both MSP and Twin Harbors.  I would vote for the MC myself, for more variety.....and a roundhouse that is still in use, probably tight enough to be modeled closely on a small module.....er, section.....

Of course, Wyatt and I will now be bidding against each other for every MC loco that comes up on EBay, thus raising the prices.

Wow! there's actually 4 people on this board with an interest in the Commercial.  SPFs better watch out. 

[wcfn100]

Former St Paul union depot used by Amtrak until the Midway station opened in the late 1970's today.

I saw a lot of the commercial growing up in MN.  I'm a bit more partial the Minnesota Transfer days, but I digress. 

Jason