BLI Pennsylvania M1a/b

[Dave V]

It's the Peco Insulfrogs...  Shorting out every time the M1 passes over them.  Looks like the wheel treads are wide enough to contact both rails at the insulated frog.  Sigh.

[peteski]

So, 30 loaded hoppers and a cabin.  Nice!

But it's shorting out in turnouts (I know, Peco turnouts are tight) and it also acts like it's not getting pickup from all of its wheels.

More tuning of track and loco...

I don't have one handy but I think the gauge is ok or even a bit wide. Peco turnouts have much looser tolerance than for example Atlas C55 switches (the depth and width of the flangeways is larger).  That is why friend who uses them had to shim the inside of the guardrails.

Before you go tuning your switches, check the gauge on the loco. The Centipedes I got were really tight in gauge. So much so that they wouldn't stay on track on certain Atlas C55 turnouts. The wheels would ride up over either the closure rail of the frog or over the guardrail!

[Dave V]

I'll check that.  For now I put a dab of Floquil rail paint on the railhead just a hair beyond each frog and that's working.  But yeah, once I'm done playing around I need to check the gauge on all the wheels.

[peteski]

I'll check that.  For now I put a dab of Floquil rail paint on the railhead just a hair beyond each frog and that's working.  But yeah, once I'm done playing around I need to check the gauge on all the wheels.

In that case the tread might be too wide. Bachmann has notoriously wide tread on their wheels.  On Peco turnouts the rails exiting the frog are very close to each other and opposite polarity. Wheels with flat (not tapered) and wide tread will touch both of those rails, causing a short.

One solution (if you have many trains which have wide tread wheels) is to grind down the railhead of those 2 rails (for about 1/8') then superglue a piece of styrene over that, then smooth it with a file. You will have a short piece of insulated track but it is so short that it should not cause any problems and where the track is exposed again, the adjacent opposite polarity tracks are far enough apart not to have wheels short them anymore.

[mmyers]

Not like they're going to change it given the maturity of the product, but this is a really weak design issue. There is often a need to diddle with the sleep/op/run switch, but beyond first setup rarely ever the scale switch. That they're miniature toggles only a half-inch apart poses a risk to less robust decoders. The scale switch should've been one of those flush slide switches only changeable with a screwdriver.

Simple enough to add a fail safe. Take a short piece of square stock plastic, wood, brass, etc.. Drill a hole through one side of it large enough for the toggle to pass. Place the stock over the toggle when it is set to N Scale. Works great for us n scalers. Not so easy for the other settings.

Martin Myers

[gkoproske]

In that case the tread might be too wide. On Peco turnouts the rails exiting the frog are very close to each other and opposite polarity. Wheels with flat (not tapered) and wide tread will touch both of those rails, causing a short.

One solution (if you have many trains which have wide tread wheels) is to grind down the railhead of those 2 rails (for about 1/8') then superglue a piece of styrene over that, then smooth it with a file. You will have a short piece of insulated track but it is so short that it should not cause any problems and where the track is exposed again, the adjacent opposite polarity tracks are far enough apart not to have wheels short them anymore.

For those of us who run primarily on N-Trak module layouts, this is not an option.  A locomotive must be able to run on anything.  Does this make the M1 a no-buy?  This board made the Centipede an avoid at all costs.

[wcfn100]

I tried to talk to BLI a few months ago about the wide tread they use and got back a vacant stare.  They are totally clueless as to how this could even be an issue.

Please contact them and complain, otherwise it will never change.

Jason

[peteski]

I tried to talk to BLI a few months ago about the wide tread they use and got back a vacant stare.  They are totally clueless as to how this could even be an issue.

Please contact them and complain, otherwise it will never change.

Jason

Um, there is something like NMRA wheel profile standard, isn't there?  If all manufacturers followed it, there would be no problems.  That should be a no-brainer for the manufacturers. 

BLI reps are clueless probably because they farm out all the design and manufacturing to China. How Chinese determine the tread width is anyone's guess. Maybe they imitate Bachmann. 

Bachmann is also notorious for making the wheel tread way too wide.  I have the same problem with the Acela (one of the few Bachmann models that I own and run on NTRAK modules). I already bought Kato wheels to swap all the wheels except the power car. On the power car I'll have to modify the Bachmann wheels.

[Dave V]

That is annoying if the treads are too wide.

All of this just further reminds me that the code 80 track on the now 10-year-old layout probably needs to be replaced.

[djconway]

It's the Peco Insulfrogs...  Shorting out every time the M1 passes over them.  Looks like the wheel treads are wide enough to contact both rails at the insulated frog.  Sigh.

I know you know it but this is for anyone that doesn't know.  Hit the frog rails with some finger nail polish, its a little more durable than regular paint.

[Dave V]

For those of us who run primarily on N-Trak module layouts, this is not an option.  A locomotive must be able to run on anything.  Does this make the M1 a no-buy?  This board made the Centipede an avoid at all costs.

That's a decision you'll have to make for yourself.  This was a must-buy for me because of the prototype, and turnout shorting aside, in every other way it's an amazing piece of machinery.  FWIW, as long as these guys are, they maneuver through my 13.75" radius curvature like silk.

[eric220]

For those of us who run primarily on N-Trak module layouts, this is not an option.  A locomotive must be able to run on anything.  Does this make the M1 a no-buy?  This board made the Centipede an avoid at all costs.

At the risk of going off topic, how did this board make the Centipede an avoid at all costs? I thought the whole point of the N Trak standard was to allow maximum flexibility in compatible rolling stock. My Centipedes run flawlessly over my code 80 track, including turnouts. The only hiccups are when they bounce on the code 55 turnouts.

[nstars]

The problem with the Peco Insulfrog is a well know problem. We had it already during the 80's on one of our layouts. I hate to say it (as I like the Peco track), but this is definitely a Peco issue and I wouldn't hold it against the M1.

Marc

[chicken45]

The problem with the Peco Insulfrog is a well know problem. We had it already during the 80's on one of our layouts. I hate to say it (as I like the Peco track), but this is definitely a Peco issue and I wouldn't hold it against the M1.

Marc

I feel like we should listen and trust Marc on this.

[Dave V]

The problem with the Peco Insulfrog is a well know problem. We had it already during the 80's on one of our layouts. I hate to say it (as I like the Peco track), but this is definitely a Peco issue and I wouldn't hold it against the M1.

Marc

This is true...  In fact I have other DCC engines that "chirp" in Peco frogs, flirting with but not quite achieving shut-down.  My PSC brass K4 was notorious for that.

So I'm not blaming the M! for this, but I do need to find a solution until I end up replacing the track or rebuilding the layout, whenever that happens.  After 10 years in 4 different climates my HCD layout is a bit worse for wear.  The Peco problem probably always existed, but now I have other track issues in spots related to the relentless expansion and contraction of the HCD due to humidity changes.  Moving from Florida to Colorado didn't help!

Besides, I'm looking for a different track system.  Wondering of Atlas 55 with Micro Engineering turnouts would be best.  I have a stockpile on hand that includes about half a dozen ME #6s.