Problem with curved code 55 turnout

[Puddington]

During the show we suddenly developed a dead spot on a critical Atlas code 55 rh curved turn out. The right hand diverting route was dead. See the picture attached.


I can't see anything that's shorting, blocking the switch..... but I'm no expert....

Anybody help on this one????????????????????

[davefoxx]

Sounds like the closure rail from the frog to the point on the right-hand track is dead.  Dropping a feeder will likely fix that.  Powering the frog will also rectify that rather huge gap on the curved turnouts.

Hope this helps,
DFF

[Puddington]

Sounds like the closure rail from the frog to the point on the right-hand track is dead.  Dropping a feeder will likely fix that.  Powering the frog will also rectify that rather huge gap on the curved turnouts.

Hope this helps,
DFF

Ok... and how would a borderline soldering and electrical idiot (that would be me) do such a thing....?   

[ednadolski]

Assuming that's an isolated frog, you should be able to test the proposed fix by running a loco into the dead section, and then jumpering the dead closure rail to its adjacent stock rail with an alligator clip.  (A screwdriver tip or other metal tool will do if you don't have a clip).  If it works then go ahead with soldering a jumper wire. If the loco does not respond, then the problem is elsewhere (or you have more than one problem).

Ed

[peteski]

It would be helpful to either use a voltmeter or a simple test light (12V bulb with 2 wires soldered to it) to narrow down the exact location of the dead track.  From your description it looks like it is both the frog casting and the closure rail are dead.

I don't have any curved turnouts but on standard Atlas c55 turnout there are copper shunts connecting the closure rails to the adjacent stock rail, right in the area of the points pivot. The pivot itself is actually part of that copper shunt.  It might be possible that the spot weld between the shunt and closure (or stock) rail broke and no longer conducts electricity. Or maybe it was open since the turnout was new and the connection was made through the point contacting the stock rail. Maybe now that contact area got dirty (as it usually happens) and it no longer passes electricity from the stock rail to the point/closure rail.

Is the frog powered, or left unconnected (dead on purpose)?

[mmagliaro]

I'd say +1 on using a bulb or meter to locate exactly what rails are dead (closure, frog, both).

And yes, you are going to have to carefully solder a jumper wire from the associated stock rail to the dead rail.
For the frog, of course, you'll need to power that through a switch or some contacts or however you normally power frogs.  That can't just
be done with a simple jumper because it changes which rail it needs to be linked to based on the turnout position.

And now... if you'll indulge me...
This is a common problem on all Atlas turnouts, in my experience.  I have one of those curved turnouts, and a lot of #7's plus a few #5's.  Those bridging bars and hinge points are horrible contact points and they fail often.  Of the 25 or so turnouts in my layout, I'd say at least half had one or more dead rails in them right out of the package, caused by those bridges and switch point hinges.  I soldered fine jumper wires and direct feeds to the point rails and stock rails on every single one before installation after I had two of them go bad during my early tracklaying and testing.  I'm glad I noticed this before I had 25 turnouts in there!

I really urge people to "hotwire" their moving point rails, the frog, and the closure rails before you put the turnout in.  It's a lot of work, but it will save you a ton of headache in the future.

Here's an example of the bypass wires I have around the hinges to the moving point rails.

[John]

Ok... and how would a borderline soldering and electrical idiot (that would be me) do such a thing....?   

Maybe get Jason to shoot it with a phaser

Seriously, its not that hard ..  there are a couple of threads on here (I don't have time to search right now) that cover exactly how this is done ..

[Puddington]

I have to admit to not understanding 2/3's of what was said before.... this is a DC layout; not DCC - there is no specific power going to the frog; the turn outs are powered through the nearest feeder.... 

[peteski]

Nice tutorial Max. So much better than trying to explain it in words. And your fix makes electrical connection as we say bulletproof!

Have you had any of the welds between the frog and the copper strip fail too?

[peteski]

I have to admit to not understanding 2/3's of what was said before.... this is a DC layout; not DCC - there is no specific power going to the frog; the turn outs are powered through the nearest feeder.... 

Puddy, powering the frog is the same regardless if the layout uses DC or DCC. Dead section will be dead regardless of the type of power being sent through it.

Sounds like you always had dead frogs in your turnouts. Sounds king of funny, doesn't it?

Look at your turnout - specifically at the frog casting. It has gaps all around it it is not touching any of the rails.  This means that the entire frog is electrically dead.  But under the ties it has a small copper strip leading to the outside of the turnout. It is therre so you can solder a wire to feed power to it. Normally that wire is attached to auxiliary contacts of a switch machine (or in Max's example to a slide switch at the throwbar).  That way the frog can be powered from the appropriate rail as the turnout is thrown.  This makes the entire turnout electrically active (which is a big advantage for electro-frog turnouts).

If you have the frog unconnected then all your turnouts have a dead spot st the frog area.

[ednadolski]

which is a bug advantage

lol, we all want the best bugs for our wiring

Ed

[mmagliaro]

Nice tutorial Max. So much better than trying to explain it in words. And your fix makes electrical connection as we say bulletproof!

Have you had any of the welds between the frog and the copper strip fail too?

Yep.  My tutorial photo doesn't show it, but after having to drill down next to the frog, or through it, to delicately solder a replacement feeder a time or two, I said "Heck with that" and started soldering my own direct feed wire to the frog from underneath.
It is also cast and plated, and not easy to solder to, just like the point rails.  So I drill into the bottom of it with a pin vise until
I hit some nicer metal inside.  Then I tin the little hole I just drilled, tin a piece of wire, and then heat and stuff it in.

In general, you can't trust any of the bronze strip connector thingies under those turnouts.

[John]

I generally am a big Atlas fan, and have 1 1/2 cases of C55 track, and around 70 turnouts .. but they screwed the pooch with these as far as reliability is concerned .. they need to rework this design to make it more reliable .. @ $12-16 a pop, we shouldn't have to McGiver these things to make them work

[mighalpern]

Puddy try this web sight to help explain how to wire in either DC or DCC
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches.htm
I just fixed a #7 that had the rail broken at the hinge point ( common problem)  and re-did the rails via handled style.  removed two plastic tie and put copper ties and soldered the new rail to them.  same with the throwbar, went copper and soldered.  work real good, but that farther than you need to go.  Although it does look from you picture like the upper right hinge point is off

[peteski]

Puddy try this web sight

I cringe when I see this one.   It is Website or Web site.