N-Scale Rewards Program Off to Strong Start

[eric220]

What I would recommend is that the search returns a list of products, such as searching for PRR and diesel locomotive would return:

• Broadway Limited Baldwin Cenitpede
• Broadway Limited AlCo PA
• ER Models Baldwin RF-16
• Atlas EMD GP-9
• Atlas Baldwin VO-1000
• etc

Whereas a search for LV and diesel locomotive would return:

• Atlas EMD GP-9
• Atlas Baldwin VO-1000
• Intermountain EMD FT A/B
• etc

The list of products makes instead of individual items makes it easier to scan the list. I also know based on my search terms that these are all diesel locomotives that were released in the specified railroad. If I want more info about a specific product, I can click on it to see additional details. I would recommend that the drill-down be a list of different paint schemes. If there are multiple part numbers associated with different road numbers, I would reccommend that they just be listed as a field in the paint scheme record, as opposed to each road number and part number having its own record.

I guess what I'm thinking is a series of one-to many relationships going: product -< paint schemes -< part numbers and road numbers

[gdmichaels]

Hi Eric,

I developed this out somewhat in the direction you were looking for.  I am not sure it is quite what you had in mind, but it may work.

First off, I created a new Body Style list page.  It can be found on the N Scale Resource links page here:

http://www.trovestar.com/general/resource/resource_display.php?Collection=4

You should see a link under "Query Pages" called "Body Styles".  This link will take you to a list of all body styles currently defined.  A shortcut is here:

http://www.trovestar.com/collection_pages/4/body_styles.php

On this page you will see a search field called "Road Name Search:".  You can type in part of a road name, the full road name or any reporting mark and it will limit the list to only body styles that have at least one listing for your target road.  If you then click on one of those body style links, it will "Drill Down" to the specific cars/listings which match your search and the selected body style.

Please let me know what you think,

George

[eric220]

Moving in the right direction. I'll see if I can come up with an illustration to better explain my thoughts when I get home from work.

[eric220]

OK, after a little quality time with Dreamweaver:

This shows a search for all Pennsylvania Railroad diesel locomotives in the database and part of the return. Important points here: my photos are bigger than yours. In retrospect, I'd probably go even bigger. It's important (IMHO) to have a clear image in the list. Also, I've eliminated all of the internal database fields. Not many users are going to care about the unique ID unless they're editing the DB.



Next up is the return that I get if I click on "details" for the centipede. Important points here: despite the fact that I searched for PRR, the detail return shows me all of the available roads and schemes. Also, total returns are reduced by combining product codes that differ only in road number. This is an extremely important point (again, IMHO). I find this list much more readable than the way the database currently presents.



Another important usability point: the "subtype" list should change depending on the "type" field. If I enter "locomotive" in "type" showing me all the subtypes for boxcars, gondolas, and everything else is extremely distracting.

[peteski]

Another important usability point: the "subtype" list should change depending on the "type" field. If I enter "locomotive" in "type" showing me all the subtypes for boxcars, gondolas, and everything else is extremely distracting.

I agree. I discussed context-sensitive pull-down menus with George last weekend. He thinks it is doable.

[gdmichaels]

Eric,

Thanks so much for mockup.  That really helps.

Let me address a couple of the items you mentioned. 

A) The image size that appears on the list was something that a fair amount of thought and experimentation went into.  The goal of a thumbnail is threefold.  1) You want to keep download times fast.  This is especially important for someone at a train show who is using their phone to browse and they don't have a lot of bars on their reception.  2) Similarly it keeps response time fast for the server.  This also keeps bandwidth costs under control.  3) Lastly smaller images meant that lists of 300 items don't take up too much screen space. 

So I am open to making them larger, but I want to consider the implications some before doing so.

B) You are absolutely right about the database codes.  I will think of a better way to set up the drill-down links.

C) A total overhaul of the list system will be challenging.  I will try to fold in your suggestions as I can, but sometimes what sounds easy on paper (or Dreamweaver) can be kind of tough in the LAMP stack.

D) I am going to try to build in context sensitivity into the pull-down menus on my next pass.  Pete suggested that the site would benefit from it as is, and with folks starting to add Euro, Asian and obscure items, this will become even more critical.  I will be working on this next.

Your mockup is excellent and very valuable.  I saved a copy and am thinking already of how to progress towards it.

George

[gdmichaels]

Answers to Body Styles:

New Vendors get added when a new body style is created.  You can create a new body style when you create a new entry if you have admin access to the collection.  I am happy to consider anyone for an admin role after they have created a few different kinds of entries and show they get the hang of it.

You can just PM me or post here whatever body styles you would like created and one of our admins will create it for you promptly.  To create a new body style, you need to know:

Vendor: (Kato, Atlas, MTL etc)

Class: (Engine, Rolling Stock, Container, Vehicle, Trailer)

Type: (Engine, Box Car, Flat Car, Open Hopper, Covered Hopper, Gondola etc.)

SubType: (varies, but is typically length in feet for a box car, bays for a hopper, cupola style for cabooses, Steam or Diesel or Electric for Engines)

Variety: In general it is whatever differentiates this 40 foot box car from every other 40 foot box car.  For Engines, it is the model number, for Gondolas and Hoppers it would be capacity and for cabooses it might be where the cupola is situated or window configuration for a Bay-Window model.

Era: For european models

Region: North America, Japan, Europe, etc.

Default Image: Typically the manufacturer provides a Fair-Use non-copyrighted image specifically for purposes such as this.  Try to provide a link to this image.  Micro-Trains, for example, provides fair-use images for all their new releases and distributes these through their "Media Kits".

Review: Put something creative here or a link (with credit) to someone else's forum article or web page.

[gdmichaels]

I set up examples of European and Japanese models:

Japanese Steamer: http://www.trovestar.com/generic/zoom.php?id=95080

European Electric: http://www.trovestar.com/generic/zoom.php?id=95079

[eric220]

@gdmichaels , believe me, I understand the database design challenge end of my suggestions, and in that light, I very much thank you for taking my suggestions seriously. I know that the mockups that I presented would be a major challenge to implement at this point in the design game, and I'm not kidding myself that you're just going to take them and make them happen. If I can provide a different point of view that gives you some good ideas, then I've done my part. Keep at it! You've got the start of something wonderful there.

On the note of the thumbnail size, I see what you mean. I'd offer that the current size is so small that it hinders the utility of having photos at all. The bandwidth issues could potentially be solved with higher jpeg compression settings. I think a bigger image with more artifacts would be more useful than the smaller images. The issues related to the length of the return could be helped by providing a summarized return, as I've mocked up. Also, it seems that you might be able to use more rectangular, flatter photo sizes. Even shaving a couple of pixels off the height would make a big difference in a long list.

[gdmichaels]

Eric,

Thank you again for your support and understanding of what I am trying to do.  It really feels like an uphill battle some days

George

[VonRyan]

A further declination should be RTR and Kits. That way anyone searching for something they know to be kit-built can eliminate all RTR entries.

[gdmichaels]

Now THAT is a darn good idea (and easy to add).  I will set it as a boolean (yes/no) immediately.

I think it should be set at the model level (not body style) since many body styles had products in both RTR and kit form (I am thinking Intermountain).

[gdmichaels]

The program rewards just arrived from TopHobbyTrains. Arlette gave me a hand selecting things that people would really like. Thanks Arlette! We also have requested some of the latest Weathered BPRR box cars for this rewards promotion, but we will wait til we have them in hand before allowing people to request them.

A few notes:

The two big rewards: the A-B Santa Fe set and the Centipede set will require you to first qualify for one of the smaller prizes. We need to avoid tying up expensive items for 20 days for people who lose interest half way through. Once you finish qualifying for a smaller reward, you may "trade-in" your entries to go as credit for a larger item, provided nobody else is already requested it. We really want to avoid anyone keying in a few hundred entries only to find out "sorry that item is already gone...." That would lead to bad feelings.

Effort involved: even the Atlas Box Cars will require 100 entries. Given that some of the recent Athearn and Trainworx releases have contained 100+ variations, this is not a ton of work, but it isn't push-three-buttons and get a free box car either. In the case of 3-packs, 12-packs or whatever, each item counts. A single 12 pack can therefore count as 13 entries, but you must create an entry for each item with the correct road number. You must also make sure that ll 13 items (each car and the multipack) all share the same multipack product code so they get linked together for search purposes.

Entries with a mistake here and there will still count. Downright sloppy entries will not. If you fix errors in someone else's entry that WILL count, so if you simply wish to watch other people create stuff and you can be the "fixer" that would be very much valued. It is certainly possible for two or more people to all get credit for the same item if each person adds more value to the entry by adding critical details.

At the bare minimum you will need to specify the manufacturer product code, road name, road number, paint scheme, vendor, body style info and approximate date of issue. This sounds like a lot of data, but often times when you are creating a bunch of items in a multipack, you can use the 'copy item' function that will duplicate everything and allow you to simply change the road number and the product code which takes about 10 seconds to do. The body style, road name/number, vendor and paint scheme will likely be identical for all entries. If you do create entries like this, you must provide the accurate road numbers for each item in the pack. You cannot simply list them as Car A, Car B, etc. Micro-Trains multipacks contain a separate product code for each item in the package. Other vendors do not. We recommend for other vendors you use the product code for the multipack entry itself and then put a -A, -B, -C for each of the components. For example I own a Broadway Limited 6-pack of coal hoppers. If the product code is 3110, then the entry for the multipack should be 3110. For the first car in the pack, the product code should be called 3110-A. The second 3110-B etc.

Photo Uploads. If you own one of whatever it is you are creating, we will provide double credit if you snap a picture and upload the photo somewhere and then link it to your entry. Photobucket accounts are free! The system will automatically copy the photo over to the server so you don't get into trouble with bandwidth issues.

We will get the full official rules posted on the site by the time we start.

[VonRyan]

What if an item doesn't have a product code nor a manufacturer/company name?
I have a cast-resin baggage car kit that has neither.

[peteski]

A further declination should be RTR and Kits. That way anyone searching for something they know to be kit-built can eliminate all RTR entries.

On my workbench every model becomes a kit.