N Pre-orders Re-visited

[mecgp7]

If you received the email from Rapido recently, you saw where they talked about the lack of pre-orders on some of their N scale passenger cars. I like how they are honest with their customers so that we can understand where they are coming from, but I don't know how to fix the problem. Other companies have cancelled projects due to the lack of pre-orders. I don't think that there isn't any interest in their products and I support that with what I have witnessed on the e-tail sites. Many are sold out. I, for one, don't pre-order based on simple economics. If I wait until an item hits the shelves, I can purchase it for significantly less than what I reserved it for. I looked up current prices for certain products at e-tailers and found that in some cases I could purchase three cars if I waited to buy for the same price as two pre-ordered cars. Yes, I take the chance of missing out, but it is very rare that I can't find what I am looking for eventually.
The fact that many items do sell out tells me that others are doing the same.

So, how to fix the problem? One thought is to offer a discount for pre-orders. There is no incentive to pre-order other than guaranteeing that you receive the model and help to ensure that it is produced. Again, I havent had much trouble finding what I want. The downside is tying up a credit card and, as stated earlier, ultimately paying more. Exactrail went to direct sales. Couldn't pre-orders be direct sales? It takes out the e-tailer markup. The company gets guaranteed orders and it would help keep off the shelf prices in check.

Personally, another obstacle for not pre-ordering is that e-tailers don't accept Pay Pal or won't accept it for pre-orders. Sorry, but that is my credit choice. My 0% interest choice.

[peteski]

Personally, another obstacle for not pre-ordering is that e-tailers don't accept Pay Pal or won't accept it for pre-orders. Sorry, but that is my credit choice. My 0% interest choice.

I think the big problem is that Paypal payment have to be redeemed within a short period of time of being sent. Most companies do not charge the credit card on pre-orders - they just keep your credit card info until the item arrives. (In some instances the wait time is so long that the credit card expires!) Then they charge the credit card when the item actually ships.  I don't think you can do that with Paypal.

[jdcolombo]

The pre-order system, like it or not, is here to stay.  We can either adapt to that system, pre-order stuff we want and help make sure it gets produced, or stay on the sidelines, in which case some things will not get produced. 

I have not experienced the pricing issues you describe.  I preorder mostly locomotives, although I will also pre-order NKP rolling stock.   I've never paid more for a pre-ordered item than when it was listed in-stock; in fact, I usually pay a bit less.  Your post indicates that in some cases, in-stock items are discounted by 30% over the price of the preorder (three cars for the price of two pre-order); I've just never experienced this with the stuff I pre-order.  What I have experienced is that if I wait, I don't get what I want.  This may be road-name dependent: NKP stuff isn't as plentiful as UP, BNSF, etc.   So when an NKP model is produced, I pre-order.  The only time that has been a negative for me was with the Bachmann Berkshire.  I pre-ordered three; the Berk turned out to be a less-than-stellar performer, and had I waited, I would have saved money, since I wouldn't have bought any at all.   But this was the rare exception to the general rule that if I want it, I play the pre-order game.

I agree that a significant discount for pre-order would be helpful; there's no reason why a manufacturer couldn't price pre-orders a bit closer to cost, since they are guaranteed sales.  But I do know that if we as modelers don't play the pre-order game, we won't get stuff produced.  That's just the modern reality.

John C.

[mu26aeh]

I have 4 pre-orders standing with LHS at this moment.  3 are with Intermountain.  1 is the SD40-2, pre-order placed on 3/9/14.  Still not released.  Second is FP9 decorated for Algoma Central.  According to their website, it is TBD, so might as well say it's DBP (Dead Before Production), pre-order placed on 2/21/15.  Third is also Intermountain, newly announced Trinity 3281 hoppers.  Not holding my breathe.  Lastly is for newly announced Atlas 4750 hoppers, will have to make sure I have money put back for these as they will show up before anything else will.

In each case though, I've been able to reserve them at discount prices.  My LHS sometimes does 25-30% discounts on early buy/reservations, usually for a month or so after they are announced.

[BCR751]

I, too, have a loco on pre-order from Intermountain.  Going on year two for that one and still no solid word on when it will show up.  They majority of things that I have pre-ordered have taken, in my opinion, a very long time to show up. The places I deal with do not offer discounts for pre-orders.  In fact one etailer charges top dollar for anything, pre-orders included.  I hate pre-orders.  As far as I'm concerned, the distributors (can't really call them manufacturers since everything is made in China and don't get me started on that) should simply ask for expressions of interest.  If they get enough of those, they could be reasonably confident that it would translate into sales when the products are produced.  No money up front on the part of the consumer, which I would never do anyway.  Admittedly, the distributor will have to shell out cash for the tooling so there's some risk there but if the model is of good quality and something that appeals to a wide audience, it will sell regardless if it's pre-ordered or not.

[Chris333]

I pre-ordered a few GHQ N.P. boxcars about 10 years ago...

[reinhardtjh]

If you're pre-ordering something and being charged MSRP from an online seller, then you're buying from the wrong seller.  You can go to BLW, Feather River, N Scale Supply and several others and the pre-orders will be the same price they charge once the item comes into stock.  BLW even usually gives you a discount on the shipping for the pre-ordered items.  The only exception I can think of may be if you're not in the USA and have to order locally in your same country.  Exchange rates, import fees and shipping could make it not worthwhile.

I'm lucky in the Cincinnati area, I have three hobby shops that will pre-order for me and every one of them discounts.  I've got BLI M1a/b's pre-ordered only from these three LHS and prices range from $0.01 higher than BLW price to $17.50 higher.  It's worth that to buy locally in that case to keep the business going.

As for discounts for pre-ordering, one place did that - TrainWorld - on the Bachmann Berkshires.  Their pre-order price was about $20 lower than the price once they were in stock and they got bitched at for price gouging!  Even though the in-stock price was still a discount from MSRP.  Personally, I agree that higher discounts for pre-orders are an incentive.  You are taking a slight risk, like with the Berkshires, that something you have promised to buy is of worthwhile value to you.  The risk is when there is a problem with the item and it's not of value.  Actually, one of my LHS does this.  If you pre-order you get the big discount, if you wait until it's in the shop, the the discount is about half as much.  Works for me.

[jmarley76]

The pre-order system, like it or not, is here to stay.  We can either adapt to that system, pre-order stuff we want and help make sure it gets produced, or stay on the sidelines, in which case some things will not get produced.

While I understand the need for it, I am glad not everything is on the pre-order system. What is most disappointing is seeing a popular item go quickly, then in subsequent runs, that particular paint scheme or version is not produced (or ever again). It seems in some instances, the impression is that the pre-order system is more important than the basic concept of supply and demand.

[mecgp7]

I didn't say that I pre-ordered items and was charged more than the same item on the shelf. I intended ro convey that if I did not pre-order and waited for a while after it had been released that I could get it much cheaper even up to 30% less. I also stated that I took the chance of missing out, but I haven't had that issue.

The other piece of the market that has to be considered is eBay. As a New England modeler, I can get great deals on new releases from western shops who must realize that east coast roads won't sell well in their area.

I think discounts on pre-orders would be the way to go. The manufacturer loses nothing as they are still selling the item at their asking price. The savings come from the buyer not having to pay the shop markup.

[OldEastRR]

Anybody got a link to this newsletter? Do NOT tell me the Osgood-Bradleys were cancelled!!!

[Puddington]

Anybody got a link to this newsletter? Do NOT tell me the Osgood-Bradleys were cancelled!!!

Osgood Bradley's are in pre production right now and will be here this summer..... who said anything about the OB's....? No Rapido N scale is being cancelled - please read the newsletter before jumping to conclusions gang..... all Jason did was give an update on baggage car sales and tell people they are weaker then needed for production. (and yes, we're a bit surprised, it was the number one requested car by those who have contacted us, over a dining car, observation can or sleeper....)

http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?m=1101318906379&ca=49f79059-bd47-41b9-887b-d9c00b473f5e

[Chris333]

Those cars look great, but are way out of my era. When MTL did the Erie baggage car I didn't pre-order any at all. Once they showed up at an online shop I simple placed an order for 4 of them. I just checked and they are still in stock right now.

I pre-ordered Atlas #5 code 55 turnouts when they were first produced and ended up seeing everyone online with them before me because the place I ordered from didn't get them in yet. I pre-ordered an Atlas shay and got a phone call that my credit card had expired. That delayed the order.

[rrjim1]

I really like to Pre-order, and not just model railroad items. You see something you want, pre-order and forget all about it until that shipping email arrives.   

[peteski]

I really like to Pre-order, and not just model railroad items. You see something you want, pre-order and forget all about it until that shipping email arrives.

...unless the time from preorder to production is so long that in the meantime your credit card expires, and you move too.  Then you can wait for it forever and the item you wanted so much never arrives.  It has happened....
 

[sd45elect2000]

I reserved the Rapido GARX reefers in all of the Swift schemes and got them as intended. As it turned out I ended up with all of the sets they produced.

 There is no way I could have reserved all of them !! Rapido made 36 separate sets at roughly 100 bucks a piece. I do not have $3600.00 in cash laying around.

I still have a large amount of Fox Valley Milwaukee Hiawatha equipment reserved including one 4-4-2 Atlantic . IF and when those items arrive they will probably do so at the same time. This is going to sting my bank account ! Until the Fox Valley items materialize I cannot reserve any other items.

Blueford shops are coming out with some very nice hopper cars very soon but I was unable to reserve them. I think I can still get them all , I am hopeful anyhow.

Randy Stahl