SPF help needed: 1925 depot paint scheme

[Dave V]

Back in the day I preferred PolyScale Aged Concrete for my PRR wall color.  Then they changed the formula...

The thing is, though, that at least in 1925, there was probably a lot more variety in the paint colors as they were often obtained locally rather than system-wide.  Not sure when drift cards came into use, but my PRRT&HS reproduction drift cards make the wall color look darker than you'd probably see after a few years' fade.  That said, you're probably still darker than the pale you see in that picture of HUNT tower above.

I also remember seeing/hearing that back in the days of lead-based paint, colors didn't fade as quickly as they do now.  I don't know if that's really true or not, but it sounds plausible.  Remember, I'm a meteorologist, not a chemist!

[muktown128]

I also remember seeing/hearing that back in the days of lead-based paint, colors didn't fade as quickly as they do now.  I don't know if that's really true or not, but it sounds plausible.  Remember, I'm a meteorologist, not a chemist!

That is generally true.  Especially for brighter colors.  Organic pigments replaced heavy metal containing pigments due to environmental regulations.  The organic produce pigments are more expensive, don't hide as well and generally are not as durable.

BTW - I am a chemist who works for a paint company.

Scott

[chicken45]

Back in the day I preferred PolyScale Aged Concrete for my PRR wall color.  Then they changed the formula...

Interesting. When did they make the change?

[Dave V]

Interesting. When did they make the change?

Late 2000s I think.

[peteski]

Interesting. When did they make the change?

Does it matter since that entire line was discontinued?

[chicken45]

Does it matter since that entire line was discontinued?

It does... It was one of the colors I stocked up on.

[randgust]

I see that Testors has an "aged concrete".... any comments on that?

 

[randgust]

I'll post this here as an update.    It's not as yellow as it makes it look, I should have probably taken it outside for its first shots.   This is the Model Masters "TH&B Cream" color over white styrene, and "Earth Brown" for the trim.



If you look at the black and white shot at the beginning of the thread- as near as I can determine, this depot was still very new for 1925 and was the reconstruction of a depot that seems like it burned with the tannery fire in 1922.   The entire area is really, really 'new' if you figure the railroad got here in 1864.    This was right before US Rt. 62 was opened up the Allegheny River in 1926, and for all intents, the local passenger service collapsed after that was done.  So I'm doing the model as neat and pretty as I imagine it would have been, which is very much unlike everything else around a tannery town.   

[chicken45]

It looks too bright for my eye, but thinking about it just now made me realize something. I made the association in my mind that Aged Concrete/Roof Brown is the correct color because it is what I use...and it is what I look at every day. Looking at my own models reinforces that so when I see something that doesn't look like my model and paint scheme, it looks wrong, even if it isn't.

[Lemosteam]

Then there are these recommendations that @Dave Vollmer just used on one of my tool sheds (copied from a weekend update thread)....

Completed PRR standard tool house (plan 57984-B) from Keystone Details (@Lemosteam).  Color palette is as follows:

Wall color:  DecoArt Americana Acrylic, Camel
Trim color:  Polyscale Roof Brown
Window sashes:  Polyscale Oxide Red
Roof:  Testors Flat Black spray paint with a wash of Polyscale Grimy Black (roof was covered with masking tape to simulate tar paper)
Weathering wash:  DecoArt Americana Acrylic, Soft Black

[randgust]

I'll have to drag this outside and photo it to get the color rendition right with my camera.    I'm ballasting away at the moment.

But here's something strange in my eyes.   I'm noticing on the original B&W photo (top of the thread) there is no sign of any train order signal mast.   That shot is taken from the back of the station looking toward the main, and it's not there.   I'm reading that PRR didn't use them, used some kind of lantern/flag thing down at the operator level, particularly during the 1920's.   

I know there was an agent, presumably an operator, at West Hickory.   That 'inside' track was a 42-car passing siding.   The 1920's started the construction of the Bethlehem Steel plant in Buffalo, and this line suddenly became the prime supply line for PRR coal loads headed upriver that way, so it was being upgraded to handle the traffic (hence my rock ballast on the main over the original cinders) - but it was, and always was, an unsignalled, single-track main line with passing sidings.   1950's track charts I have show phone booths at both ends of every passing siding, and 'CP' (control points) for every passing siding, so this was definitely train order country but NO SIGNALS except on interlocking approaches at Oil City and Irvineton.   When the coal traffic really started to build on the line they made it a directional main line primarily primarily headed north   

So, SPF's, what's the deal with PRR and train order signals?  I know relatively little about this.

The very oldest 1887-era shot of West Hickory I've seen (pre-PRR influence) also has what sure looks like a highball signal mast at the diamond to control traffic.   After than, I can't see much evidence of how they controlled traffic across the diamond except smoke signals and maybe the toll bridge tender right at the end of the bridge.

[Chris333]

Saw this on facebook of the Kinzua, PA PRR station:
https://www.facebook.com/349823178382668/photos/a.349833915048261.84801.349823178382668/1040893519275627/?type=3&theater

Where exactly is Kinzua, PA?

EDIT: Guess it is now under water...

[randgust]

Yep.  Under water - in the 90-100' range of the Allegheny Reservoir.   

If you follow PRR history back far enough, "Ludlow", PA was originally "Kinzua".   Ludlow was on the P&E east and south of Warren, Kinzua was east and northeast a bit.   That was only between about 1865 and 1880 though.    If you research railroad block signal history, you'll find out that one of the very first installations was at "Kinzua", but the diagrams and track charts are all wrong - it was at what is now Ludlow.

Kinzua was also a junction with the PRR "Westline" branch that was leased to and operated by Central Pennsylvania Lumber.  That was one of the screwier scheduled passenger operations as well, like one day a week if you look at a 1950's Official Guide.   Photos show you rode in a caboose converted from a boxcar.  That PRR branch shows on a lot of system maps without explanation - at one time it kept on going east toward Bradford as a 3' line in the oil boom era and was later standard-gauged on the remaining portions for logging railroad use.

[prr7161]

PRR train order signals are under rule 294 - yellow flag by day and yellow lantern by night.  Pretty much user-operated, though I believe in later days metal versions of the flags were tacked onto towers or signal masts and mechanically operated.  There were also flashing "O" lights on signal masts, but of course those would not be around in dark territory.

[randgust]

Well, now that I know what I'm looking for - that explains it.
http://signals.jovet.net/rules/PRR%20Signal%20Rules.pdf

OK, well, to me (an ATSF fan primarily), a little depot like West Hickory looks naked without a train order signal semaphore, but I'll be consistent with PRR when I can.   I'd never seen this before and I grew up in PRR country.

Since I'm 'theoretically' doing 1925, I guess I could also do the Form 31 red flag as well as the yellow.    I like the picture I found here and that may be put on the building.....
http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/patchogue/PDsignals/PDsignals.htm