What are the prototypes for the various MTL 50' gons supposed to be?

[nkalanaga]

Other than being a little too short, the 15 panel gons are very close to the GN's P-S cars, both open and covered.  I suspect that all of these were shortened to fit in the "standard" 1960s/70s jewel box.

[bbussey]

... The 48000 series gondola may have a 50' 0" prototype.  I saw a photo of a Lehigh Valley gondola that Ted Cullotta was selling on EBay.  The car has an interior length of 50' 0".  See LV 31540.  I will let you be the judge.  Thank you.

So, the 14-panel straight-side drop-end model is accurate for this LV series and maybe a WM variant on the Bethlehem cars. So it may be possible to have a prototypical LV scheme on the model. Ironically, I think MTL only has released LV on the fishbelly and did so eons ago.

[bbussey]

Other than being a little too short, the 15 panel gons are very close to the GN's P-S cars, both open and covered.  I suspect that all of these were shortened to fit in the "standard" 1960s/70s jewel box.

Except that 52 scale foot long N scale equipment still will fit in the small box.  It's tight, but it fits.

[OldEastRR]

I thought the basic reason for today's 50 and 40 foot gons and flats was they could use the same underbody frames as 40 and 50 foot boxcars.
BTW, is that a Bachmann (CB&Q) gon in the picture?

[Mark5]

I thought the basic reason for today's 50 and 40 foot gons and flats was they could use the same underbody frames as 40 and 50 foot boxcars.
BTW, is that a Bachmann (CB&Q) gon in the picture?

Arnold Rapido.

Mark

[wcfn100]

There is a fairly correct model of the War Emergency Gons - it was the first gon in N scale to scale out to 52' as well (1960's!):



I've been planning to document the conversion of this model to body mounts etc (N&W had these), but too much has been getting in the way.

Mark

Yeah you're right, we don't need a new one.  You sure that's not a BLMA model?  It looks like it could be.


Jason

[wcfn100]

I thought the basic reason for today's 50 and 40 foot gons and flats was they could use the same underbody frames as 40 and 50 foot boxcars.

But they don't. 

I know this has been a popular idea, but I looked through my old MTL stuff for black label cars, and I can't find a 46000 series gondola, but I have most of the others and the under frame is much different than the 50' box car.  Enough that I don't believe it they would even modify a 50' box to fit.  The first thing is that the box cars have wood board detail molded into the floor.  Also many of the gondolas have large openings at the coupler box.  And I didn't take it all down and measure, but at first glance, it would seem that they aren't even the same length (really close to, but not the same).  Another thing is that the stirrups fit differently into the frame.

Now I don't have a lot of cars from 1975, so maybe someone who does could take a look and see what it was like right at the beginning.

Jason

[bbussey]

You are correct, the gondola/flatcar underframe always was different from the 50' boxcar underframe.

It turns out that NSE did a limited run Lehigh Valley on the 48000-series back in 2011 for the Hershey PA convention that appears to be within the same number series as the builder's photo above.  The prototype is slightly different from the model in that panels 2-13 are identical in size, whereas panels 2 and 13 do not match panels 3-12 on the model.  But the IL and side-height do match up, so AFAIK this is the only release over the past 40 years that is 90%+ accurate to the prototype.

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[Mark5]

Yeah you're right, we don't need a new one.  You sure that's not a BLMA model?  It looks like it could be.


Jason

Lmao ... It'll be no BLMA model when I'm done with it, but it will be surprisingly decent (and much better than the currrent alternatives)

Sign me up for the BLMA(Atlas) version!

Mark

[nkalanaga]

Bryan:  I tried fitting a TW gon in a MT small box, and you're right, it will fit, with some room for padding at the end.  As you said, it's tight, but it can safely be done.

I'm not sure it would fit, with enough room for padding to survive shipping, with the truck-mounted Rapido couplers that were an option when these cars came out. 

[bbussey]

Perhaps a 52' model would not have fit. But they did make longer models eventually, and new boxes were tooled accordingly.

Regarding the Arnold war emergency gondola, I'll have to take another look at that. If the details are passable, I might scrounge one up to bring up to current standards.

[nkalanaga]

Yes, and they could have tooled longer boxes to start with.  Other companies did, in the late 60s and early 70s, as the Atlas Center Flow and AHM/CC "Big John" covered hoppers wouldn't fit in a standard box, much less the Atlas Big Pig Palace and 4-truck tank cars.  There are several ways MT could have offered a proper length gon.

If all else failed, they could have left the trucks off and let the customer install them!

[cjm413]

So, the 14-panel straight-side drop-end model is accurate for this LV series and maybe a WM variant on the Bethlehem cars. So it may be possible to have a prototypical LV scheme on the model. Ironically, I think MTL only has released LV on the fishbelly and did so eons ago.

MTL had a relatively recent release of a 46000 series gon in USRE green paint.

[bbussey]

Relevant to this thread is whether or not the USRE release was prototypical.

[cjm413]

Relevant to this thread is whether or not the USRE release was prototypical.

More info re: the prototype (both as-built and USRE) is here:

http://www.anthraciterailroads.org/lvrr/modeling-the-lvrr/modeling-freight-cars/lvs-52-ft-mill-gondolas/