Best Of Spokane, Portland and Seattle (SP&S) 0-6-0 Project

[central.vermont]

Max,
This has been a beauty of a project and I'm loving it as well as getting a lot of good construction techniques out of it. But one thing I was wondering was about the diamond plate tread effect you got. You said it was close enough  I can't believe I read this from you but got me to think about it and what if you used the same knurled knob but ran it over it a second time but just offset enough to create a closer pattern?

Jon

[mmagliaro]

Jon..

You know what?  That's not a bad idea at all!  I will see what I get by running  the knurl over it twice. 
It would certainly give me more dimples, so even at that, it may look better. 

Don't be shocked.  Yes, I try not to compromise, but I also know when I've hit a wall.  If I can think of a better way to
simulate that pattern, I'll upgrade it in a heartbeat.    Sometimes that comes about because kind souls like you from the
forum suggest something I hadn't thought of! 

[daniel_leavitt2000]

I have that same tool. I think the grip on an xacto blade had a smaller tread pattern.

[robert3985]

Max,

This probably goes against your desire to make everything on this model...but Gold Medal Models makes etched brass "Diamond-Pattern Non-Skid Steel Plating", and it looks spot-on.   GMM 160-62

As always, it is intensely interesting to watch this coming together.  I don't think the photos give us a real idea of how small this model is.

I give it another "WOW!"....

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[peteski]

Max,
This has been a beauty of a project and I'm loving it as well as getting a lot of good construction techniques out of it. But one thing I was wondering was about the diamond plate tread effect you got. You said it was close enough  I can't believe I read this from you but got me to think about it and what if you used the same knurled knob but ran it over it a second time but just offset enough to create a closer pattern?

Jon

I had the same thought when looking over Max's photos of the tender.  The tread pattern as-is is IMO way too coarse for such a fine model.  To me 1:160 scale tread pattern is too fine to be clearly visible in N scale. That is one of the things which bugs me in N scale models. I would rather see smooth surface than the oversize dimples spread scale-foot apart.

The other question I have for Max is whether he scribed the panel lines on the tender sides before shaping it? That would have been a perfect time to do it (when the sides were flat).  Some of the photos seem to show scribed lines while others seem to show smooth surface.

[mmagliaro]

To be honest, I cannot remember when I scribed those lines!

As for the treadplate, yes, I have some of that GMM and BLMA skid-plate stuff and it looks great.  In fact,
I used some of the BLMA on my SP&S 4-6-2. 

I tried re-rolling and cross-rolling and I was not happy with any of the results.  Coarse dimples or no,
I would still prefer what I have to anything I've been able to make.   I disagree with Peteski.  Even though it is oversized,
I would rather see the dimples than see a smooth surface.  Something in my brain tells me it just looks "better"
or at least "more right" than a smooth surface.  I have heard arguments on both sides of this (whether to
leave details off in N Scale when they would get too small to actually see)

I am pained by this, because I know that the commercial etched skid-plate stuff looks excellent,  but I really
do not think I can get close to that.  So what is the right thing to do?  Use some commercial parts?  Maybe.  Maybe
the goal should be to make the best model I can when I come across a part I simply cannot make.
(funny to have completely scratch-built spoked drivers, and be thwarted by a piece of skid plate !)

[wcfn100]

Doesn't Archer make a tread plate sheet?

Jason

[Chris333]

Or burnish down thick foil over the etched stuff just so you can say you made it yourself 

If it was up on the pilot or some where else readily noticeable I'd say upgrade it, but it looks fine where it is.

[mmagliaro]

Doesn't Archer make a tread plate sheet?

Jason

Yes, they make a lot of different variations: generic, specific to certain loco types, treadplate for armor (tanks),
and in all difference scales.   But that's still a commercial part solution, even though it's a decal.
Technically speaking, the SP&S decals I will use on this came from Microscale, but at least I did make the artwork
for those myself.

The real question is whether to leave the treadplate as-is even though it's not as good as a commercial part,
just for the sake of making as much of this by hand as possible.

[mmagliaro]

Or burnish down thick foil over the etched stuff just so you can say you made it yourself 

If it was up on the pilot or some where else readily noticeable I'd say upgrade it, but it looks fine where it is.

Ewwwwww... that would be so.... UNCLEAN!   LOL!   

[peteski]

To be honest, I cannot remember when I scribed those lines!

So, the lines are scribed - excellent!    You didn't mention it in the latest tender writeup, so I wasn't sure.

As far as not using commercial products in this loco I think that you are taking it a bit too far.  How about the motor? Did you wind the rotor or mine the ore for the magnet?  How about the gears and axles? Didn't you buy those as off-the shelf components? You didn't make the LEDs either.  How about screws? Do you see my point? Why not treat the tread-plate as one of the commercially-acquired parts or materials which you are using in your scratch-built model?

[Lemosteam]

^^^^ Oh boy, gods questioning gods.  Gotta love it. 

Max, maybe a photo of tread plate turned into a decal over a smooth surface would work?

I can't imagine you'll be hand painting all of the lettering on this loco after paint?

[Sokramiketes]

Yes, they make a lot of different variations: generic, specific to certain loco types, treadplate for armor (tanks),
and in all difference scales.   But that's still a commercial part solution, even though it's a decal.
Technically speaking, the SP&S decals I will use on this came from Microscale, but at least I did make the artwork
for those myself.

The real question is whether to leave the treadplate as-is even though it's not as good as a commercial part,
just for the sake of making as much of this by hand as possible.

I'm having a hard time understanding your separation of Archer rivet decals being OK to use and treadplate decals not being ok...

Surely you could have set up a riveting tool and stamped the rivets instead.  But you chose a commercial solution because it's more elegant, right?

[wcfn100]

Yeah, I guess I don't know the line between using the Archer rivets and the treadplate.  One solution could be to use whatever you want and then mold and cast a new piece.  That counts as scratch building for the NMRA.

Jason

[mmagliaro]

Peteski:
Yes, there is a short list of commercial things I always knew I would use, and they are pretty much your list:
motor, gears, LEDs, wire.  I am just loathe to add things to that list unless I have to.

And yes, that list also includes decals which, although made from my artwork, were actually produced by Microscale.
The list also includes screws and nuts, and... yes, Archer rivet decals.

But the logic I see in the recent posts here, is irrefutable.  You have "Mr. Spocked" me.   And I thank you for this.
Jason (wcfn100), your point is well taken.  There is no difference between using Archer rivet decals vs Archer treadplate
decals.

So I think I'm going to cut a piece out of my etched BLMA treadplate stock and be done with this.

I think a more proper goal should be to make everything by hand as much as possible, unless I cannot make something
that is at least close to the quality of a commercial part.