PRR R50B Reefer kits: Third run is coming, end of October, 2015!

[peteski]

I think what they are getting at is that with a metal truck (as on the R50b model), you need the insulated wheels on the same side (if only one end of the axle is insulated).  Given that the R50b model also has a metal underframe, you would need all the insulated wheels on the same side. 

Exactly.
Remember Bruce that FVM (and other brand replacement wheels) only have one wheel insulated from the axle.

[GaryHinshaw]

Just to belabour the point a bit, and amplify what peteski said: you don't need a metal under-frame for there to be a short with FVM type wheels and metal trucks.  If the two axles in a truck have their insulated wheels on opposite rails, there is a shorting path:

A rail > uninsulated wheel > first axle > truck frame > second axle > uninsulated wheel > B rail >> SHORT.

If both insulated wheels are on the same rail, it should be fine.

[OldEastRR]

Guess I'm not explaining this well, or it's hard seeing the axles for the wheels -- however, no matter what kind of wheels, the AXLES -- with  8 needlepoint ends against both of the metal sideframes -- is a solid metal rod between them, thus a conductor. I don't know how tiny a short that makes or if it would affect any DCC or DC system. But unless FVM or other wheels have a non-conducting section of axle I don't see how this can be avoided with metal trucks other than using all-plastic wheelsets.

[GaryHinshaw]

Try drawing yourself a diagram that makes a path from one rail to the opposite rail entirely through metal (assuming the metal wheels are insulated from the metal axles).  It doesn't matter that both sides of the truck are at the same polarity, unless they physically touch the rail.

[peteski]

Guess I'm not explaining this well, or it's hard seeing the axles for the wheels -- however, no matter what kind of wheels, the AXLES -- with  8 needlepoint ends against both of the metal sideframes -- is a solid metal rod between them, thus a conductor. I don't know how tiny a short that makes or if it would affect any DCC or DC system. But unless FVM or other wheels have a non-conducting section of axle I don't see how this can be avoided with metal trucks other than using all-plastic wheelsets.

Maybe this will clarify why there are no shorts with a solid axle and one insulated wheel.  All the black parts in the drawing are solid metal.  The gray wheels (and the rail under them) are insulated from the rail under the black wheels).

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[arbomambo]

Thanks,
I guess I wasn't taking the metal frame into account...
Bruce

[wcfn100]

Thanks,
I guess I wasn't taking the metal frame into account...
Bruce

Even without a metal frame, the bushings need to be on the same side within an individual truck, they just don't need both trucks to be the same side.

Jason

[arbomambo]

Even without a metal frame, the bushings need to be on the same side within an individual truck, they just don't need both trucks to be the same side.

Jason

thanks!...I'll use that as a rule from now on with metal trucks, although, for the life of me, I can't understand why I'm not 'seeing' the issue (must be a mental block as I've always been able to trace electrical problems/diagrams and find prospective problems)
Bruce

[peteski]

thanks!...I'll use that as a rule from now on with metal trucks, although, for the life of me, I can't understand why I'm not 'seeing' the issue (must be a mental block as I've always been able to trace electrical problems/diagrams and find prospective problems)
Bruce

If this doesn't clarify it, I don't know what will.
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[arbomambo]

If this doesn't clarify it, I don't know what will.
(Attachment Link)

DOH!!!!
thanks!...my brain kept 'short'-ing the bolster being metal!!!!...geez Louise!!!
Bruce

[OldEastRR]

Shorts? Oh yeah! After getting my reefer assembled with MTL 1025s and Rapido insulated 36" wheels, I put it on my DCC track to try a run ...Short-o-Rama! First the MTL metal pins would touch a rail and SHORT! (couldn't figure that one out -- how did the trip pin transfer current to the trucks?). Then just running the car in a train on ME switches SHORT! and curves SHORT!
Hell with metal wheels, I'm going to use the MTl 36". The car doesn't roll very well as is -- I wasn't expecting a Kato passenger car ride but at least something better than a 6" run when given a sharp push. Pewter will never come close to brass for seating axle ends.

[peteski]

Shorts? Oh yeah! After getting my reefer assembled with MTL 1025s and Rapido insulated 36" wheels, I put it on my DCC track to try a run ...Short-o-Rama! First the MTL metal pins would touch a rail and SHORT! (couldn't figure that one out -- how did the trip pin transfer current to the trucks?). Then just running the car in a train on ME switches SHORT! and curves SHORT!
Hell with metal wheels, I'm going to use the MTl 36". The car doesn't roll very well as is -- I wasn't expecting a Kato passenger car ride but at least something better than a 6" run when given a sharp push. Pewter will never come close to brass for seating axle ends.

I think you've got problems.   

[thomasjmdavis]

This conversation got me thinking and I pulled out my (as yet unbuilt) kit.  I moved recently, and while the kit came through the move fine, I can't find the instruction sheet that I am (almost) certain I had at one time.  Was going to look up the recommended axle length (see below).  Were instructions or drawings included with the kit? I have the painting thread bookmarked, so good there.

The conversation on shorts reminds me of my HO days 45 years ago, when I think the "all metal" kit was more common.  So a couple comments from the back of my brain that might be pertinent...

With all metal trucks, you need to be very particular about axle length, wheel gauge and clearances in general.  If the insulated wheel touches the sideframe, or the wheel flange rubs anywhere, it will cause a short.  And if the axle is a bit too long, you get a lot of friction- metal is not as forgiving as delrin.  If the axle is even a bit too short, the insulated wheel may have enough play to contact something it is not supposed to contact- which causes friction (ie- it doesn't roll well) and in the case of an all metal truck, means it is shorting against whatever it is bumping into.  If axle length is close to correct, it may work fine on straight track, but short on a curve or switch.  Wheels need to be both in guage AND centered on the axle- to avoid contact between the insulated wheel and the sideframe or other parts of the truck.  If all of that is correct, and you still have problems, a little file work on the truck frame may help.

(the post above said "36" Rapido trucks" - are those the correct axle length for the truck frame?  (I had a chart somewhere, don't know where it is right now- probably with the instruction sheet for the reefer in one box or another- or one of 34000 train related bookmarks on my computer)

And with all that, if the curves are really tight, a long wheelbase metal truck may still have problems, if it has tight tolerances.

My recommendation would be to get the model to roll well on unpowered track, make sure it tracks and rolls well through your tightest curves and switches, before applying power- if it rolls well, nothing is rubbing where it isn't supposed to.

That said, this is a really fine model, and worth taking the time fiddling with the trucks, if necessary.

[chicken45]

Looking for this?
Each kit includes the following:
1 x undecorated R50b reefer body shell
1 x brass photo etching with 12 brake wheels (for use on this and other projects)
2 x pewter PRR 2D-P5 trucks (new style with friction bearing journals)
1 x pewter under frame (with a cast on air cylinder)
1 x pewter brake assembly
1 x plastic strip roofwalk (to be trimmed to length)
1 x custom decal set for 11 paint schemes
(If your kit is missing a grab, a section of 0.10x0.10 in styrene will be included)

Also required to complete the car, (but not included in the kit)
• 4 x FVM (or similar) 36" Wheel with 0.553" axle wheel sets
• 2 x body mount couplers of your choice
• 2 x king pins (plastic or 0-80, 00-90 screws)
• Paint (see ZM20 in the GHQ N-scale forum)
• Tools: Hand drill, #11 X-acto knife, pin, Q-tips,
Micro-Sol™, Dull Cote™, "super glue," and a paint brush



Found it here:
https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=32623.0

[Lemosteam]

Looking for this?
Each kit includes the following:
1 x undecorated R50b reefer body shell
1 x brass photo etching with 12 brake wheels (for use on this and other projects)
2 x pewter PRR 2D-P5 trucks (new style with friction bearing journals)
1 x pewter under frame (with a cast on air cylinder)
1 x pewter brake assembly
1 x plastic strip roofwalk (to be trimmed to length)
1 x custom decal set for 11 paint schemes
(If your kit is missing a grab, a section of 0.10x0.10 in styrene will be included)

Also required to complete the car, (but not included in the kit)
• 4 x FVM (or similar) 36" Wheel with 0.553" axle wheel sets
• 2 x body mount couplers of your choice
• 2 x king pins (plastic or 0-80, 00-90 screws)
• Paint (see ZM20 in the GHQ N-scale forum)
• Tools: Hand drill, #11 X-acto knife, pin, Q-tips,
Micro-Sol™, Dull Cote™, "super glue," and a paint brush



Found it here:
https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=32623.0

Our Hero.