Tehachapi Loop II

[Lemosteam]

Not sure I see how.  Once soldered to both rails it should form a rigid structure, unless the joints fail.   (Just like soldering throwbars to non-hinged points).

Ed

s

Because With separate ties the only thing keeping gage is the opposite rail.  If you leave the pcb intact, it will be spread across the opposite rail and the entire pcb.

[robert3985]

Ed,
The solution to this problem can be achieved in several ways.  However, if you've already got the track down and the gaps cut, the most efficient way to fix the problem would be to be able to quickly and efficiently remove the underlying plastic ties on your already-laid Atlas C55 flex, and replace them with PCB ties.  For maximum efficiency, I'd use the Gapmaster product instead of four PCB ties.

Gap the metal cladding of the Gapmaster under where your rail gap is before inserting, and also thinly pre-tin it. Remove four plastic ties, plus their spacers, insert the Gapmaster and get it positioned, then solder it to the outside rail. Next, using two or three Micro Engineering three-point track gauges (I'm almost certain you've got at least a couple of these) to hold the inside track in proper gauge, with one three-point gauge's "finger" positioned directly adjacent to the end of the rail on that side of the gap...solder.  Remove the gauges and do the other side of the gap the same way.

The Gapmaster will hold the gap apart, meaning there's no need to put a plastic spacer in the gap. 

The hard part of the problem is getting the damned ties out on track that's already laid, but I came up with a very simple but efficient way of doing it using a cheap wood burning kit I bought at Harbor Freight Tools that melts a gap in the plastic connecting spacers between ties so you can simply cut & twist the isolated ties off the rails...at least with ME C55!  I haven't used it on Atlas C55, but I assume removing the isolated ties would be virtually the same.

Photo (1) - Xacto #11 blade cut to profile to allow inserting under the rails of laid flextrack.  Note the sharpened upper surface which cuts/melts the plastic tie spacers under the rail:


Photo (2) - Flextrack spacer melter/cutter in use on already laid flextrack in Echo Yard:


Seems like a lot of trouble to go to, but using your already-laid Atlas track I'm sure this is what you're going to be forced to do.

However, using ME C55 will lessen the problem, but instead of the Gapmaster, I'd reinforce the gaps on the inside rails with PCB ties.  I'd pre-plan where the gaps were going to be, remove the plastic ties and spacers and solder four to six (probably four ties would be sufficient) to the OUTSIDE rail after I'd got that piece of ME flex pretty well bent to where I want it and before I'd glued it down.  After I'd got the small kinks out and glued down, I'd then solder the inside rail to the PCB ties, and then gap it with a Dremel.  I'd also put plastic insulating spacers in the gaps...just to be sure.

Just thinking about it since I've never laid any Peco C55, I think Peco C55 would be laid with PCB ties at the pre-planned gaps in the same way as ME C55...but it'd be easier to curve smoothly.  The tops of the PCB ties would be lower than the adjacent plastic ties , but since it's not going to be seen, who cares what it looks like, right??? Additionally, if you gap Peco's tall rail carefully over a tie or area that doesn't have a gap in the plastic tie structure, you could conceivably cut the gap in the rail, being careful to not cut clear through the plastic support structure and just be done with it...no PCB ties.  I think just to be safe, I'd still insert a plastic insulating gap spacer.

In any case, it appears to me that the best solution is to use PCB ties or Gapmasters as "gauge-keepers" at your gaps, either retaining your already-laid Atlas C55, or completely re-laying your existing track using either ME C55 or Peco C55.

For efficiency's sake, I'd attempt to keep my already laid track in place using my tie removal tool and Gapmasters.

From my point of view, the loose rail in Atlas track is problematic, but I haven't had a problem with it ever, because I never used it, nor ever will.  Now I see that maybe I was correct, and if you're going to use narrow tired lo-pro metal wheelset replacements, you might find additional problems associated with track-gauge in the future if you use "floppy-rail" flex.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[ednadolski]

Thanks Bob this is some really great stuff (and your web-cutting blade looks pretty inventive).   At this point I've made the decision to bite the bullet and pull up the Atlas track;  in fact, as of this writing it's already been done.  I was just not happy about the loose rail (is it a "feature" or a "bug"?), despite that the Atlas worked fine in the 2-track helix that I had built for my little Loop (now running at Caboose, still fine AFAIK).  But that helix had no rail gaps, and did not have the accessibility concerns as with this larger one.

Aside from my own reluctance, the Atlas track came up without too much trouble, except that it took a lot of hand-scraping with a planer blade to remove all the adhesive caulk from the plywood.   One side note, the caulk would have made tie replacement pretty difficult - not just to remove the plastic ties, but also to get PCB ties installed in their place.

Now that it is up, I think putting PCB ties under the pre-planned gap locations in the Peco track is the way for me to go.  I haven't yet checked out the Gapmasters, but will try to get some samples.   IIRC they are ~ 4x the cost of pre-gapped PCB ties from Fasttracks), which is not trivial since I will have ~ 100 gaps. By the same token having so many gaps makes it all the more important to build in as much reliability as possible from the start.   How thick are the Gapmasters?  The 'double base' Peco C55 rail being embedded in the tie web is very sturdy, but to fit underneath it a PCB tie can have a max. thickness of about 0.040" - 0.045" or so.

Ed

[glakedylan]

'sweep sticks' to keep the radius and alignment through such joints?


just a suggestion
sincerely
Gary

[wcfn100]

For future suggestion if using Atlas track, you could pre-bend the sliding rail to the radius your using.  Then when cut, it wouldn't move.


Jaosn

[ednadolski]

Thanks Jason but the concern with the loose rail is that it can move, even if pre-bent or on tangent track FTM.  There is just enough room such that the the only way to assure alignment is secure it with a rail joiner or something else e.g. PCB ties.   I don't doubt that it's OK for most uses but I will have at least some of the fine tread wheels, I'm no longer confident that there would not be gauge problems at some future point.

Anyways I've now got my hands on a few sticks of the Peco and I can see why it has a reputation for robustness.  The double-base rail is very secure in the tie strip - no room for gauge problems there!

Ed

[ednadolski]

Finally an update with some progress.   I've completed replacing all the track in the first level of the helix with some Peco Code 55.  I've also built and installed all the block detectors for the first level and verified that they are working.  Here is what the helix is looking like now:



Here is a closeup of one of the rail gaps.  The Peco track holds its curve a lot better than the old track, and I think it is a big improvement over the loose/sliding rail.  I'm not sure if it holds quite as snug as ME flextrack, but it is relatively easy to form. I also decided to treat myself to some of the Fast Tracks pre-gapped PCB ties, which helps the build work to go faster.





I've also put some effort into building a bit of test scenery on a piece of scrap foamboard:






A couple of key changes over the scenery from my previous layout:

- I've made the rocks using hand-carved plaster rather than rock molds.  I've also tried pre-coloring the plaster with a bit of pigment powder  (AIM Dirty Yellow) and some acrylic paint (Raw Sienna and Yellow Ochre).  Additional washes with earth-toned acrylics plus some drybrushing helps complete the coloring.

- I've found a couple of the lighter-toned AZRM fine powders that I like, and I sift them even finer using some wire mesh cloth from the hardware store. (Not sure of the exact size but it is pretty small).

- This has a a few various colors of 1mm and 2mm static grasses instead of ground foam.  It took some experimentation to get the tones that looked OK to me.  I would still like to find some colors that are closer to that 'light straw' that can be found on the Tehachapis at that time of year, but most of the available stuff looks wrong or too dark for that.   The Tehachapi grasses can actually get quite green around March,  but the trees are only beginning to bud at that time.  Since I want fuller trees I'll have to go for mid- to late-April which typically has the grass starting to get rather dry.  (The backdrop color is rather off, but I'm working on that too.)

Now it's time to get cracking on the next level of the helix!   

Cheers!
Ed

[Smike]

Great to see progress. I remember my helix build and the most critical part was that first loop (assuming you are going to build it layer style where supports are inserted in between each run. 

Scene looks great too.

[ednadolski]

Progress has been slow lately, but I have started putting in the scenery shell at Woodford  (as always, this stage looks like a winter whiteout):





For the hills I used the WS Shape Sheet, which is a felt-like fabric backed by a slightly stiff metal foil.  It does go in a lot faster than cardboard webbing, and is easier to make the contours that you want.  This gets covered by a layer of the plaster gauze cloth, which will then be covered by a layer of paint-tinted Sculptamold.

The sky came out awful, so please try not pay any attention to it.   It's going to get completely re-painted at some point with a better color.

Cheers,
Ed

[Philip H]

I am the farthest thing from a backdrop painting expert but I think the blue looks fine on camera for a sunny day. If you want to tone it down a VERY light over spray with a light grey should add enough haze to make it work.  but I think you can leave it and no one will be the wise.

[ednadolski]

Phillip it's like trying to find a color to paint your house -- it looks fine on the sample (the little 2x4 foot panels I did) but put it up on a large surface and it just doesn't look good.  In this case it's looking too warm/saturated/cartoonish to my eye.  And of course it never looks the same on camera.   I think I'll go for something more toward a cooler, cobalt type of blue, tho it is a trial and error thing.

I really like the skies that this professional artist does:

Of course I'm nowhere remotely near his league, and such fine art clouds would be far too dramatic for a model backdrop.  But maybe at least I can get a blue tone that's close.   The oil paints would certainly be a lot easier to blend wet-on-wet,  but I tried making a small sample and found that the shine of oils just doesn't work for a backdrop.  (His blue sky areas are maybe 2-3 square feet, but mine will be more like 70-80 sqft for the whole backdrop  ).

Ed

[C855B]

Mmmmmm... looks nice, but maybe a touch too blue for Tehachapi, Ed. There's a persistent haze that filters up from Bakersfield most of the time, frequently a fog, sometimes a bit of dust from the farming around Arvin. I found it most noticeable around Caliente, but if you stand (...back when you could...) on the hillock facing into the loop, it was also apparent looking down the valley towards Woodford.

Anyway, a smidge of very light tan and a spot of gray in the mix would be more accurate.

...the shine of oils just doesn't work for a backdrop. ...

Dullcote in 55-gallon drums?

[Scottl]

I actually like your backdrop, the subtle clouds are quite realistic but the blue is a bit much for California to my eye. 

The season you are trying to depict is important, as is the era.  Humidity will alter the colour quite a bit, and before clean air regulations, pollution would cause more scattering and the sky would be whiter. 

I find what looks good in person rarely consistently appears the same in photographs.  In person, your lighting type and geometry has a lot to do with how blues look.  I have pot lights so I have to watch for shadowing and I use warm LED bulbs.  I have a sky colour I use called "Into the blue yonder". One advantage of a simple name is you can remember it when you need a quart eight years later

[GaryHinshaw]

Great to see the updates!  I actually missed the August one, so I'll comment on that first.

I think the textures in your test scenery are great - I'm going to copy your examples as best I can.  RE the grass colour, based on your tree comment, I picture you are thinking something more like this:

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/281378/

and less like this:

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/389079/

I think your test scene is pretty close to the first shot, but I would opt for a bit more emerald, and a bit less olive, if you can find suitable fibres.

Based on the second proto photo above, I'd be tempted to add a *bit* of violet to your blue sky colour, but I actually like what you have now.  Keep going! 

[ednadolski]

maybe a touch too blue for Tehachapi, Ed.

the blue is a bit much for California to my eye.

Thanks dudes, I agree you're on-target with this.   I've been trying to go with something a little different:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/BEHR-Premium-Plus-1-gal-550A-3-Little-Pond-Zero-VOC-Eggshell-Enamel-Interior-Paint-205001/204896745

It's a considerably lighter than my previous color, and I am thinking to use it as a base tone.  I've played around with adding some cobalt blue, which I like so far except that it's still a bit too cool.   So more work for me to do here....   

RE the grass colour, based on your tree comment, I picture you are thinking something more like this:

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/281378/

and less like this:

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/389079/

I think your test scene is pretty close to the first shot, but I would opt for a bit more emerald, and a bit less olive, if you can find suitable fibres.

I do have a 'Spring Grass' color which is more like that.   I've been a bit conservative in applying it so far, trying to keep keep some sense of the drier Tehachapi look.

That second pic is earlier in the spring, when the grasses are greener but the trees haven't yet budded.  When the trees do leaf out, they are more of a fresh/lighter green. The Woodland Scenics Light Green looks to my eye like a good color for that, but it looks like it they do not make it in the fine texture. So I am trying to find something like that (I would try the AMSI but I haven't seen that since the old Caboose Hobbies store).

Ed