Best Of MTL Rollingstock Prototype - 40' Wood Reefer (47000 & 49000)

[SandyEggoJake]

Moving on with an attempt to find additional prototypes for MTL models, next up I propose we consider the MTL 40' WoodReefer (47000 & 49000) in N Scale

   
In this case, shown with the straight frame option.


Here shown with the USRA fishbelly.  Both underframe have been seen on models of both series. 

So any suggestions as to the body style prototype here.  I know at least one of you has told me his unreferenced opinion....

[sirenwerks]

I don't have any of my books with me so I am playing this game by ear, but I believe the flush sill design is very much akin to a Swift prototype and the fishbelly one to a C&NW prototype.

[tom mann]

Interesting threads, please keep them up.

[SandyEggoJake]

I'd heard Tom had a 10' pole....  aye aye, C'ptan!

Come on sirenwerks.  I love that you are playing along, but "I believe" isn't quite going to cut it here.  Evidence, dear sir.  Please provide your evidence.  And you'll need it, as I foresee (and hope) your waving of the red Swift cape just might generate some alternative responses.   

As for the fishbelly, and underframes in general, my focus here is on the body styles.  As these frame are somewhat interchangeable, I suspect it might be best to give each a separate evaluation.  But it is an effort I'm quite interested to delve into as well. 

But rather than get sidetracked on underframes so soon, let us hear from others about the body. 

[wcfn100]

I doubt the reefer would be based on a Swift car as most were 36'.

Even today, many/most car models that have been made stem from the Car Builders Cyclopedia series of books and the associated drawings.  With that said, I'd say the reefer could be based on the FGE design from the 1931 Car Builders.  It's definitely the closest I can find based on various spotting design features.

I'd say the fish belly under frame is just a throw in as other car designs did have that.


Jason

[SandyEggoJake]

FGE design from the 1931 Car Builders

Interesting.  Thx Jason.  Might we bother you for an image? 

[wcfn100]

Interesting.  Thx Jason.  Might we bother you for an image?

Images may be difficult as it looks like these cars were rebuilt in the 40's.

Jason

[SandyEggoJake]

Then how about a scan of the FGE design from the 1931 Car Builders, with perhaps a page number? 

[jmlaboda]

Then how about a scan of the FGE design from the 1931 Car Builders, with perhaps a page number?

Old enough no to be a copyright issue...

[PGE_Modeller]

Dimensional comparison to the drawing in the 1931 CBC for FGE 36000-series cars - MTL measurements in green; FGE dimensions in blue:

Length over end sheathing:  41'-0 1/2"; 40'-11 5/8"
Length over roof boards:       41'-5 1/2"; 41'-3 1/2"
Length of hatch cover:           2'-2 3/4"; 2'-4 3/4"
Side sill depth:                       9 1/2"; 8"
Bottom side sheathing - eave: 9'-4 3/4"; 9'-0 3/4"
Eave width:                              9'-9 1/4"; 9'-8 3/8"
End sill:                                     7 5/8" channel; 8" channel
Width of door:                          4'-2"; 4'-2"
Door hinge spacing:                  2'-9 5/8"; 2'-9 15/16"

Two visual differences:  Prototype has strap angle braces at top corners of sides and ends; MTL model has corner braces on ends only
                                      Side sill rivets indicate 2 cross bearers between bolster and centre of car for prototype; MTL model shows 3.

Drawing: Fig. 121, page 174; photograph: Fig. 122, page 175

Cheers,

[wcfn100]

Yeah, well there you go.  There's other features that seem to match as well vs. some other designs like the 6 rung ladder, the door stops, the single grab on the left side and end.

Two visual differences:  Prototype has strap angle braces at top corners of sides and ends; MTL model has corner braces on ends only
                                      Side sill rivets indicate 2 cross bearers between bolster and centre of car for prototype; MTL model shows 3.

The large pictures I can find of the MTL car seem to show the braces on the sides.

That's interesting about the cross bearers, I couldn't see that in the smaller model pictures.  There're a few things that stand out that make me wonder.  First the rivet pattern is really narrow at the bolster.  Second, the first cross bearer is very close to where it could interfere with the truck. And third, if there were 6 total cross bearers, I'd expect them to be more evenly spaced and certainly spaced closer at the door.  I won't hold any of this up as evidence to anything, but I guess I wouldn't be very surprised if this area of the car doesn't follow a prototype for some reason.

Jason

[SandyEggoJake]

Thx PGE_Modeller!  Great stuff. 

Looking for some history on the FGE 36000 series, I found the insert for the Sunshine HO kit. 

Paraphrased:

The FGEX 36000 to 37999 were the 1927 design with 12' 7" (rail to eves) height.  Built at FGE's Indiana Harbor shops using underframes from GATC.  The design was a wood framed car with traditional tongue in grove sides, 4'x6' door and roof ice hatches.  During the 30's these cars received metal roofs and a level fascia around the body. 

This source hints that the WFEX 67000-67999 was built to the same specs. 

A picture of FGEX 36026 can be found here: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=955514

[nkalanaga]

"This source hints that the WFEX 67000-67999 was built to the same specs. "

Four Ways West's GN Equipment Color Pictorial Vol 3 says that these cars were built by FGE, starting in 1928, so it's likely that they were built to the same specs.  WFEX was very closely associated with FGE.

[PGE_Modeller]

The large pictures I can find of the MTL car seem to show the braces on the sides.


Jason

I stand corrected!  Under magnification I can see them on the car sides but they do not line up with the corner brace on the car ends and seem to be half-hidden under the fascia boards.

Cheers,

[PGE_Modeller]

"This source hints that the WFEX 67000-67999 was built to the same specs. "

Four Ways West's GN Equipment Color Pictorial Vol 3 says that these cars were built by FGE, starting in 1928, so it's likely that they were built to the same specs.  WFEX was very closely associated with FGE.

The December 1930 ORER shows identical dimensions for FGEX 36000 - 37107 and WFEX 65134,65390, 65854, 67000-67858.  BREX was also closely affiliated with FGEX and WFEX but the same 1930 register does not show any of their cars with the same dimensions.

Cheers,