Old N Scale Trivia

[Doug G.]

I was reading parts of Mark's site the other day and I noticed he was wondering a couple of things about old locos.

One was what the posts sticking up on early Rapido couplers were for. They were so the earlier metal bent hook couplers could be used with the new couplers. The bent hook couplers just hooked around the posts.

The other thing was what the opening in the rear of the later second version Con-Cor PA-1 upper chassis frame was for. This opening (kind of semi-circular) will be on the units made after they started making the DL-109 for which they used the same upper frame and, since the rear motor shaft/worm had to extend farther back to the truck on the DL-109, they had to put the opening in there for the motor shaft/worm to pass through. They just made the parts all the same so the PA-1 had the opening too.

Doug

[Carolina Northern]

Doug,

You're a great resourse - thanks for sharing.

Don

[peteski]

Maybe I'm too young to remember (or got into N scale too late) but I don't ever recall any posts sticking up on Rapido couplers.  Do you have any photos of that coupler?  I do realize that the post pointing down is for automatic uncoupling.

For trivia I have an old Arnold Rapido F9 (I think they called it F9).  The shell seems very close to Bachmann's F9 (they probably copied the Arnold one).  To save development and production costs Rapido just made the shell to fit their standard mechanism they already were using for a standard European double-cab diesel (I don't recall which one).  Even though the F9 has a single cab the mechanism is clearly made for double-ended loco.  Arnold also made new truck sideframes which they used on the F9 and their GP7/GP9.

Speaking of those, it was really a GP7. They just added the dynamic brake blister to the GP7 body they called a GP9.

[cfritschle]

Maybe I'm too young to remember (or got into N scale too late) but I don't ever recall any posts sticking up on Rapido couplers.  Do you have any photos of that coupler?  I do realize that the post pointing down is for automatic uncoupling.

For trivia I have an old Arnold Rapido F9 (I think they called it F9).  The shell seems very close to Bachmann's F9 (they probably copied the Arnold one).  To save development and production costs Rapido just made the shell to fit their standard mechanism they already were using for a standard European double-cab diesel (I don't recall which one).  Even though the F9 has a single cab the mechanism is clearly made for double-ended loco.  Arnold also made new truck sideframes which they used on the F9 and their GP7/GP9.

Speaking of those, it was really a GP7. They just added the dynamic brake blister to the GP7 body they called a GP9.

Arnold released a FP9 shortly before the GP7.  The FP9 was a big improvement over their earlier F unit.  I would have to rummage through my old catalogs to verify, but I think it was around 1967 or 68.

Carter

[Doug G.]

Go to this page on Mark's site and down the page a bit is a picture of a Union Pacific Baldwin switcher with the posts on the couplers.

http://www.spookshow.net/loco/baldswitch.html

Peteski - young whippersnapper.

And thanks Don.

Doug

[peteski]

Arnold released a FP9 shortly before the GP7.  The FP9 was a big improvement over their earlier F unit.  I would have to rummage through my old catalogs to verify, but I think it was around 1967 or 68.

Carter

Oh yeah, it has a steam generator details on the roof, so it is FP9 not F9.  Duh!
So the GP7 came after FP9 - that makes sense - they used an existing mechanism for the FP9 where the GP7 mechanism seems to be designed specifically for that model.

[wcfn100]

Oh yeah, it has a steam generator details on the roof, so it is FP9 not F9.  Duh!

That's not how you tell the difference.  F9's can have steam generators.

Jason

[nkalanaga]

I never HAD a Rapido with the posts, but have seen plenty of pictures of them, way back when.  My first true N scale model was a Trix 40' gon, CB&Q red.  It had the "regular" couplers, and all I had to run with it were my Lone Star 000 cars and loco.  The hook couplers on those could, with a little careful bending, couple with the Rapidos.  Uncoupling was strictly manual, but I didn't have an uncoupler for either style anyway, so it didn't matter.

Jason:  Very true.  The GN never bought an FP, just put the water tanks where the dynamic brakes would have been.  Their freight units had DBs, the passenger didn't, which was the easiest way to tell them apart.  Not much help on F3s...

[peteski]

Go to this page on Mark's site and down the page a bit is a picture of a Union Pacific Baldwin switcher with the posts on the couplers.

http://www.spookshow.net/loco/baldswitch.html

Peteski - young whippersnapper.

And thanks Don.

Doug

LOL!  Looking at the release dates in Mark's writeup for those models, I'm pretty much as old as the early N scale! 

I see what you mean about those couplers.


You might want to let Mark know about the purpose of those posts because in the writeup he states that he doesn't know what they are for.

[u18b]

I'm pretty sure it was for coupler compatibility.

The very first N gage couplers had V shape to them.

This was the very first N gage loco about in a tie with Lone Star.

http://www.guidetozscale.com/assets/images/0200w.jpg

Note the V couplers.    Those V couplers are HIGHER than Rapido coupler.

And that V would hook onto the Rapido coupler with the spikes.

 

[u18b]

So from Spookshow's site.....

I'm almost certain

This loco......



Will couple with this loco...




Notice the V coupler is about even with the bottom of the pilot ... while the Rapido is UNDER the pilot.


What I would still wonder is if that post on the Rapido coupler will also interface with the Lone Star OOO coupler.
I bet it might since the bar is ABOVE the center of the wheel, while the Rapodo coupler is EVEN with the center of the wheel.




So when N gage started, there were two couplers.  Arnold was using the V coupler.
Lone Star had that complicated bar and hook.

Wic Brandon invented the "Rapido" coupler- which at first had that post on it.
That post helped couple different brands together.
That post was eventually/quickly dropped.

Arnold dropped the V coupler and they probably stopped caring about Lone Star (which faded in the distance).





By the way, this site is a great resource for....

old Arnold locos.
http://www.guidetozscale.com/html/arnold_rapido.html

old Lone Star (Doug's site)
http://www.irwinsjournal.com/a1g/a1glocos/TrebleO.html

[peteski]

I'm pretty sure it was for coupler compatibility.

The very first N gage couplers had V shape to them.
This was the very first N gage loco about in a tie with Lone Star.
http://www.guidetozscale.com/assets/images/0200w.jpg
Note the V couplers.    Those V couplers are HIGHER than Rapido coupler.
And that V would hook onto the Rapido coupler with the spikes.

Yes, that was what Doug G. mentioned in his initial post of this thread:
One was what the posts sticking up on early Rapido couplers were for. They were so the earlier metal bent hook couplers could be used with the new couplers. The bent hook couplers just hooked around the posts.

[Doug G.]

I never HAD a Rapido with the posts, but have seen plenty of pictures of them, way back when.  My first true N scale model was a Trix 40' gon, CB&Q red.  It had the "regular" couplers, and all I had to run with it were my Lone Star 000 cars and loco.  The hook couplers on those could, with a little careful bending, couple with the Rapidos.  Uncoupling was strictly manual, but I didn't have an uncoupler for either style anyway, so it didn't matter.

That's funny because I did the same thing. My Baldwin 0-8-0's coupler hook is still not quite right to this day even after I bent it back from being straight down. I had bought an Atlas composite gondola (Norfolk & Southern) in about September/October of 1967 and only had Treble-O-Lectric locos. I just had to do something to pull that car along the track until I finally got an E8.

I had uncouplers for my Treble-O stuff but, with the hook bent straight down, they wouldn't lift the hook quite high enough to uncouple from the Rapido. i didn't care though.

Doug

[Doug G.]

Running a Rapido coupler equipped car up to a Lone Star car, it is obvious the post on a Rapido equipped coupler would easily extend up through the loop on the Lone Star car. The only thing is that the hook on the Lone Star car hits the Rapido equipped car before they get close enough for that to happen. It's close but it wouldn't really work unless you removed the hook from the Lone Star car.

I would have done it if it meant being able to run the two together since removing the hook was easy enough but I never had any early Rapido equipment either so I never had to even think about it.

Doug

[u18b]

Yes, that was what Doug G. mentioned in his initial post of this thread:
One was what the posts sticking up on early Rapido couplers were for. They were so the earlier metal bent hook couplers could be used with the new couplers. The bent hook couplers just hooked around the posts.

Sorry.   I skim too much.