Touch screens, JMRI and interfacing with the layout

[bbussey]

With all of the turnout points I have to automate, I'm exploring whether or not going to a touch screen and JMRI is a more viable option.  It would seem to me that in the digital environment, it would be much easier to make additions and corrections to an already-operating panel.  I've already experienced having to modify my physical main panel twice – once by totally redoing the top plate with drilling new holes and re-mounting toggles and LEDS, and the other time just adding "addendum" routes to a blank area of the board so that I didn't have to redo the plate a third time.  As I get most of the track in place, I already see where I may want to add an additional turnout or two down the road.

I've done some research on the touch screens and found sources that supply reasonably-priced 32" wide screens (and wider) with USB interface and single or multiple touch points.  Can anyone direct me to a reference on:

• Does the touch screen require multiple touch points or is one touch point sufficient, given that only?
• Creating the image (or converting an existing one) to appear on the touch screen
• Interfacing the touch screen points with JMRI
• Interfacing the Tam Valley controllers that animate the servos connected to the turnout points

I have one analog control panel now that I'm not looking forward to finishing the analog wiring on.  Currently, I have the main power on/off, accessory bus on/off, standard/program track toggle and one double-crossover wired, with a couple-dozen more points and dozens of LEDs left to wire.  I will have at least two more control panels for other main areas.  I would prefer to have everything digital in order to make future additions less of a chore.   Thanks.

[C855B]

Keep us posted, Bryan! JMRI, touch screens, Tam Valley + servos - this is exactly the direction I'm going. Nice to have somebody else volunteer to do the debugging first.

Seriously... replacing a hard-wired panel this way on an existing layout is the stuff that Model Railroader articles are made from. I wish I could be more help, but lack the know-how on the panel side of JMRI to be anything more than a cheering section.

[eric220]

I've been experimenting on a variation of this approach. In my application, I'm looking for a series of smaller panels around the layout. With JMRI's web serving capabilities, I'm trying cheap tablets. The tablets have the advantage that you don't have to do cable runs from a central computer; they just need power and a wifi connection. So far, the approach seems promising. JMRI serves up a web page that looks and acts just like any panel you're running in Panel Pro, so development and integration with JMRI is easy. The only thing to watch for is that the buttons on your panels are big enough that they can be hit reliably with model railroader-sized fingers. 

[bbussey]

@eric220 – I also will be using a series of panels around the layout.  Two of them will be roughly 30"x12", while the third and future panels will be smaller.  I don't mind running USB lines to a central location since everything will be under-table.  Please explain further (or point me to where I may learn) about the JMRI web pages and the Panel Pro application.  It would seem that Panel Pro would be my first step in converting my existing artwork.

[C855B]

Be careful on length of USB cables. It's not a particularly robust standard for long hauls. I'll probably need to be wi-fi to any subpanels.

I'm with Eric about the JMRI web implementation on tablets. Definitely an opportunity for cost savings there by using older iPads.

[bbussey]

Be careful on length of USB cables. It's not a particularly robust standard for long hauls. I'll probably need to be wi-fi to any subpanels.

I'm with Eric about the JMRI web implementation on tablets. Definitely an opportunity for cost savings there by using older iPads.

I've found USB 32"x12" touch screens for $125.  They have hard-wire versions as well.

Just reviewed the Panel Pro web pages.  Seems that it has its own graphics and you can't use your own.  I want to have my own graphics, so I have to learn how to display that dynamic image and integrate that with JMRI apparently.

[eric220]

@bbussey - The web server is stupidly easy to use. Under preferences:Web Servrer, specify the port you want to use on your computer to serve the web pages (and any other configuration options you want). Next, go to the debug menu and select "start JMRI web server". Finally, point a web browser connected at the server ip:port number, and select the panel that you want to view. What you should see is an exact replica of the panel in your web browser that functions exactly like the panel in Panel Pro. Clicks are transmitted to Panel Pro, and the server drives the appropriate actions.

In re-reading your post, I realized that I may have made an incorrect assumption. I presumed that you already had some familiarity with JMRI, but it seems like that's not the case. Assuming that you're just getting your feet wet with JMRI (or for any spectators who are), Panel Pro is the application within JMRI that is used to create the control panels. It does have a learning curve, especially if you want to do some of the more advanced functions like automated train running. The best place to start to get some familiarization with the application is here:

http://jmri.sourceforge.net/help/en/html/apps/PanelPro/PanelPro.shtml

There are links to clinics that walk you up to the level of coding a CTC panel that actually follows CTC rules. I'd recommend following the presentations and actually building some of the practice panels.

Seems that it has its own graphics and you can't use your own.  I want to have my own graphics, so I have to learn how to display that dynamic image and integrate that with JMRI apparently.

Oh no, you can include custom graphics. I actually created a set of PRR style position light signals. I also made custom turnout indicators so that the track diagram shows the state of the turnouts. The trick is to put the custom files in the program's support folders along with the default graphics.

[bbussey]

I just finished reading the PanelPro page in the JMRI site, and also skimmed the Quaker Valley PDFs on setting up a panel.  I don't expect this to be an easy learning experience.  But learning and applying it will make things much easier for me going forward.

I did see that it is possible to add your own graphics.  So I will have to play with it some and see what's what.  If I could import an existing graphic, it would be helpful, but I am prepare to redraw the panel if necessary.  I've downloaded the JMRI install, so it's a matter of playing with it for a while.

[Philip H]

I just finished reading the PanelPro page in the JMRI site, and also skimmed the Quaker Valley PDFs on setting up a panel.  I don't expect this to be an easy learning experience. 

this from the guy who figured out how to get quality production out of Shapeways . . . . 

[Philip H]

In all seriousness @bbussey it looks like someone may have figured it out:

https://www.facebook.com/modelcraftsman

https://www.facebook.com/ritmrc/photos/a.530510203704648.1073741844.393931700695833/867810953307903/?type=1&fref=nf

[railnerd]

My HO club just uses "old" hand-me-down tablets.  We have a bunch of original iPads and various Android tablets being used as control panels.

Much better than point of sale monitors— because the tablets connect to JMRI over WiFi and we don't have to futz with USB cables between everything.  We just use USB cables to keep the tablets charged up.

-Dave

[John]

@bbussey  -- spend 10 minutes to watch this video .. Bob is a great guy and has been working this exact problem ..  he is also on the jmri list ..

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[Bangorboy]

There's another option in JMRI for control panels.  It lacks some of the finer features of the Panel Pro output, which will display which train is in a block with proper sensors and programming, but that's a digression.

If you want a panel that looks similar to many hardware panels on traditional model rrs, you can use the "layout editor" feature and draw one.  The graphics are somewhat limited, but you can change them within limits.  The panel for my staging yard is like that.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/atx0k7c57uubiyz/Staging15.xml?dl=0

I find that using the JMRI web server and wifi, my 10" gen 2 iPad can operate the turnouts and routes very well.  Just touch the red button sensor, and all the turnout to that track align automatically, then the green indicator "lights" up to indicate the route is ready.

[Bangorboy]

Forgot to mention....   

The PanelPro files (JMRI files) are html.  Your computer will try to open them with a browser.  I didn't write all that html code, JMRI did that when i drew the panel.  Anyway, download my dropbox file to your computer, open PanelPro, and tell it to open a new panel, select the dropbox file and it should display for you. 

[GaryHinshaw]

I am implementing basically the same setup that Eric describes.  Once you get past the basics of web serving and panel setup, it is really easy to go to town.  This definitely beats analog panels, as long as you have DCC turnout control set up from the beginning.

I'm guessing my use of tablets will evolve to the point that they travel with the operator and serve as a throttle, control panel interface (you can call up any local panel that jmri is serving), signal repeater, switch list server, and even a display for onboard video feeds.