Econami Decoder Update: Installed in a Kato Mike

[jdcolombo]

Hi folks.

OK - yesterday I received my revised Soundtraxx Econami ECO-100 decoder with the new chuff-sync software fix.   I installed it in one of my Kato Mikes, and thought I would share the result.

The software change allows pretty good chuff sync starting at about speed step 7/128.  When I crack the throttle open in 128-speed-step mode, I don't get a chuff at all, until I advance the throttle to about step 3, and then it only starts to get into sync at about step 7.   By step 10 or so, it's pretty well in sync and stays there over the rest of the speed range.  I don't know exactly why this behavior exists; I set up the chuff sync at speed step 10 for the video below; if I try to sync it at a lower speed (e.g., steps 2-5), then it goes out of sync at the higher speeds, and I can't get it to sync at all at step 1/128 (I literally get no chuffs at 1/128).   I don't know why this is the way it is - it would seem to me that the driver rotation is linear (e.g., if it takes 20 motor rotations to get one driver rotation, that relationship holds true no matter what the motor speed).  I suspect this has something to do with the way the ECO interpolates the speed steps in 128-step mode vs. 28 step mode.  I suspect that if I switched to 28-step mode, this behavior would largely go away. 

You can see this behavior in the video below.  When I crack the throttle open, you get open cocks hiss (which I really like) but no chuffs until I advance the throttle.  By about the 50-second mark in the video, I've advanced the throttle to step 10 out of 128, and the chuffs are pretty well in sync.

So things are definitely better - I can get the chuffs in sync at all but the very lowest speed steps.  Certainly useable now, if not perfect.  The ESU LokSound is still vastly better on the chuff-sync end.

On the plus side of the ledger, the new ECO-100 really sounds good IMHO.  I had it set for medium steam (the ECO series allows you to select light, medium, heavy and articulated chuffs); with whistle #6 (according to Soundtraxx, this is a B&O step-top 3-chime).  The whistle is loud and clear; the bell sound is very good, and the chuffs sound great to my ears.  You can also hear how the chuffs change pitch as speed increases - in the last part of the video, the Kato is running at about 50 smph past the Lorain station, and the chuffs are higher in pitch, but still distinct.   (The speaker is a Knowles Donau 11x15mm in a custom sealed enclosure made from .040 styrene, sitting in the front of the tender and firing up at the coal load).

And the motor control is excellent.  It may be just a hair behind the ESU Loksound, but not much more than that - I can get the Mike to creep along at less than 1 smph with this thing, which I never could do with the Tsunami no matter what I tried; on this one, I'm using stock BEMF settings, and it just works.

So, all in all, I like the ECO-100.  I wish I could get the very-slow-speed chuffs to match up better, but since I don't spend a lot of time running my steam locos at speed step 1/128, I could probably put up with this for the other benefits (price - $65; flexibility; and sound quality).  I'll probably continue to use the ESU LokSound for now, but the ECO certainly has some good things going for it.

Here's the video:

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John C.

[Cajonpassfan]

John, thank you very much for the update. I'm encouraged about many of the features, including the great slow speed control, but the fact that the chuff doesn't start until almost a full revolution is curious, and would kill it for me.

Do you trim the top speed and use momentum in your steam? I find the older Tsunamis behaving much better when I compress the available speed range and wonder whether that might help overcome the missing chuff at start?
( I run in 28 step mode and the momentum also helps smooth the step transitions. I also happen to like the use of momentum, and not everyone does).
Regards, Otto K.

[jdcolombo]

Hi Otto.

I have a little bit of momentum programmed in - not much.  But I've compressed the speed range a lot - CV2 is set at 1; CV6 at 30 and CV 5 at 70.   Kato's motors are always fast and without altering the high end speed, this thing would probably hit 200 mph on a tangent.  Now it maxes out at about 60 or so.

I'm pretty sure that the issue with speed step 1 has to do with the way the chuff circuit interpolates 128 speed step mode, because when I advance the throttle to what would be somewhere between step 1 and 2 in 28-step mode, it starts chuffing away - still not a good sync at that speed, but at least there are chuffs. 

I find this all very curious.  Loksound and QSI use two CV's to do electronic chuff sync; one sets the base timing at speed step 1; then the other sets the timing at 1/4 throttle (or something like that) and the decoder calculates the rest.  I can get the chuff timing almost perfect with the LokSound; haven't found a way to do so yet with the ECO-100, unless I use a starting speed that is higher than I would like.  And in theory, if the chuff timing circuit is using motor RPM via the BEMF monitoring circuits to time the chuffs, you ought to be able to get away with just a single adjustment: set it at any speed, and the timing should be the same no matter how fast the motor is turning.  But perhaps ESU and QSI know something about all this that I don't (and apparently, Soundtraxx doesn't, either).

But the sound is terrific, and I'll probably use a few of these in certain engines just to get a variety in sound effects if nothing else.  I thought the chuffs/whistle/bell combo really "fit" the Mike well.

John C.

[Cajonpassfan]

Thanks John, I think I will buy one, and experiment. Certainly the price is right and who knows, maybe there are tricks we don't yet know about.... one can only hope.
But, how do I make sure I'm getting one with the upgrade
Best, Otto

[jdcolombo]

Thanks John, I think I will buy one, and experiment. Certainly the price is right and who knows, maybe there are tricks we don't yet know about.... one can only hope.
But, how do I make sure I'm getting one with the upgrade
Best, Otto

Well, that's a good question.   I probably wouldn't buy one from a dealer until they have had a chance to ship theirs back for reprogramming.  Maybe wait a month?  Or ask the dealer if the ones they are selling have the newer firmware that addresses the chuff sync timing adjustment range.   It is interesting that the Econami Steam User's manual that has just recently been posted to the Soundtraxx web site lists CV114 as having an adjustment range from zero to 255.   The original documentation they posted showed CV114 as having an adjustment range only to 127.  So they clearly have made a permanent change; I just don't know how they are addressing decoders that were in stock at dealers - presumably the dealers have been ordered to ship them back to Soundtraxx for updating.

Probably the best strategy is just to ask the dealer if their stock all has been updated to the latest firmware to address the chuff timing adjustment range issue.  If the dealer doesn't know what that means, find another dealer!

John

EDIT: by the way, I have CV114 set at 230 on the Mike in the video.  So even with the fix, I'm at the upper end of the adjustment range.   But Kato is known for hell-fire fast  gearing that lets the engines win the Indy-500 at high throttle settings.   So if this works with the Mike, it probably will work with everything else, too.

[peteski]

Thanks for the report John!
Without me going to read the manual again, doesn't this decoder have CVs which show the firmware revision?